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The attached is a collage of caricatures done by a JB Melhuish, one of whom is my Grandfather N. C. Parsons. Can anyone shed some light on the group? My Grandfather to the best of my knowledge was a Signals Lieutenant with the Somerset L. I.

post-18142-1168399172.jpg

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What a great pic, maybe of no help, but could it be a divisional group. Have you typed the other names into this sites search engine? ya never know, I'm sure someone will recognise a name on there.

There's this chap listed on the MICs, you could try a search with his full name. Good luck, cheers, Jon :D

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Hello ejc

There is a JB Melhuish promoted from the ranks:

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=18

It would be interesting to establish the common link between these characters.

Jon's suggestion of a divisional connection is a possibility but I would be more inclined towards some training course or perhaps a convalescent home given the diversity of the units.

A lovely object nevertheless.

Regards

Mel

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Given the abbreviation "S4I", and the fact that all those pictured are officers of varying capbadges - one wearing earphones, could it be a staff branch in one of the major HQs - S4I linking it to Signals for Intelligence.

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Doing a little more digging - one character is shown as Glubb who holds large folder called Works Notes; there were very few soldiers of that name, Sir Frederick Manley Glubb was an enginner who served with HQ 2nd Army and was deployed to Italy in 1917, to assist stem the German adavance. The 2nd Army team was stood down and retruned to france in early 1918 and this picture could a momento of their time together . S4I also being Second for Italy

The one person missing, who would of course confirm this suggestion is "Daddy" Plumer

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I should add that I recenty found that "S41" is actually the military charge for "scandalous behaviour", so it may have been meant as a joke. To my knowlege, my mother's, and according to my Grandfather's MIC he served only in France.

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Sir Frederick Manley Glubb was an enginner who served with HQ 2nd Army and was deployed to Italy in 1917, to assist stem the German adavance. The 2nd Army team was stood down and retruned to france in early 1918 and this picture could a momento of their time together .

Is he any relation to Glubb Pasha? An older brother, cousin etc.

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Is he any relation to Glubb Pasha? An older brother, cousin etc.

I have done a little 'googling'. It looks as if if Glubb Pasha was this mans son. Or rather, Glubb Pasha's fathers name was Frederick...

"Her husband was son of Maj-Gen Sir frederick Glubb, KCMG, CB, DSO, who died in 1938."

http://peeragenews.blogspot.com/2005/09/lady-glubb.html

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Is he any relation to Glubb Pasha? An older brother, cousin etc.

Beppo - this link http://tredelyn.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_tr...yn_archive.html indicates that he was Glubb Pasha's father.

Jim

PS - scroll down a bit and there's a fascinating bit about links between the BUF and British motor sport....

PPS - I see you've also bin a-googlin' - like Credence Clearwater Revival sang: "Keep on Googlin'" .....

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It is unfortunate that I cannot make the pic larger. When I look at my copy it is D Clubb with a "C" not Glubb.

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Beppo - this link http://tredelyn.blogspot.com/2006_06_01_tr...yn_archive.html indicates that he was Glubb Pasha's father.

Jim

PS - scroll down a bit and there's a fascinating bit about links between the BUF and British motor sport....

PPS - I see you've also bin a-googlin' - like Credence Clearwater Revival sang: "Keep on Googlin'" .....

Thanks Jim. I thought that there could not be too many army officers called Frederick Glubb, but confirmation is nice.

The motor racing stuff is interesting. I think I once read a similar thing about early aviators too, from A V Roe (AVRO) on down.

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Since my last post I have been entering the names into the MIC search. It appears that the various people are from all sorts of different regiments, which leads me to believe it may have been on a training course or something similar as someone above suggested. Some of the officers are wearing spurs, which I understand would mean Calvary or Artillery, is this correct? In addition anyone out there know where I could search for a course in March 1918 as that is when it was dated.

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Hello ejc

I have just done a quick check on Melhuish in the Gazette. He was seconded on 15 April 1918 and, by pure chance, P Copeland appears on the same Gazette page as seconded on the same date:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...PageDuplicate=n &issueNumber=30644&pageNumber=0&SearchFor=J B Melhuish&selMedalType=&selHonourType=

If you conduct a further search on a couple of more names then you may well come up with secondment on the same date - if so, that would tend to confirm March 1918 as a training course.

The next big question is seconded to what? :rolleyes:

regards

Mel

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D Clubb also seconded as of 15th April (same Gazette as others - 23rd April 1918).

We need someone with particular knowledge about one of these men to establish waht they were doing between April 1918 and the Armistice.

Can I suggest that you post a list of the names with the Regiments and Corps?

Regards

Mel

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This is what I have so far from the MIC's

H. J. Lancaster Capt. Surreys

W. B. Harris Lt. Wiltshire Reg

W. A. Robertson Capt. RAMC?

A. R. McClure Pvt Northumberland Fusiliers

F. W. Wallace Lt. Scottish Rifles

J. Millar Capt. Royal Highlanders

D. Clubb Lt West Yorkshire

A. S. Johnson Maj. Nottingham-Derbyshire

H. E. Bingemann Lt. East Surrey

J. B. Melhuish Lt. Leicester Reg

W. Woolf Sarjeant Devonshire Reg.

As you can see they appear to be a real mixed bag. Some may be questionable searches as I only have the initials. My Grandfather, N. C. Parsons was Lt. with the Somersets, originally with the Royal Fusiliers UPS. My understanding is that he was in Signals. Other than that I know he was in Brussels right after the Armistice.

By the way his MIC shows only the 1915 Star. Is that common they would not enter in his Victory medal etc. (Nobody knows what becamce of his medals, unfortunately although we have wedding photos with him wearing them)

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ejc

I have found the answer :P

The Gazette for 26 April 1918 confirms that both your grandfather and Bingemann as seconded to A. Sig. Serv with the date of 15th April again.

It is obviously Army Signals Service but somebody needs to enlighten me as to what type of unit this is -HQ, Divisional, Brigade?

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Mel

That is amazing! I feel like I am piecing together a little bit of my history. Thanks. My mother is sending me some photos, which include some group shots. One of them might be the same group, it will be interesting to compare the faces.

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By the way his MIC shows only the 1915 Star. Is that common they would not enter in his Victory medal etc.

ejc

I have posted a separate thread on the units forum to see if anybody has some ideas about A. Sig Serv.

With the MIC, it is always possible that there is another card but you often have to be a little lateral in finding it. Your grandad was a private when he entered the theatre of war so his Star would be engravedwith his then rank and number of 3558 with the RF.

As an officer, I believe that he would have had to apply for the BWM and Victory medals rather than being granted automatically.

If you trawl through the Gazette, you will be able to find the date on which he was commisioned.

Regards

Mel

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  • 14 years later...
Duncan Mirylees

I think I can put you all out of your misery!  I suspect that this cartoon, which was done by Ltn J.B Melhuish, almost certainly shows the military establishment attached to the British Commission at the Armistice talks at Spa, Belgium, 1918 - 1919.  It was under the overall command of General Sir Richard Haking, but seems to have been comprised of men from any number of different regiments/units .  Unfortunately, like others, I am unable to enlarge the picture in order to check names, but it would be interesting to know if he is amongst them.  Possibly not since he was commanding officer!  Ltn Melhuish is the character at far R having a smoke.

 

I have a couple of photographs of the establishment, including one of Melhuish with a squad of Sappers?, who comprised the 'Wireless Section, British Mission, Spa'  as a little board in front of them tells us. 

 

It is a shame we cannot enlarge this image, because it might be possible to match them with faces on one of the photographs, which is almost certainly of the entire establishment, with Gen. Haking front and centre.  It's a pity that so many of them are not full face, however.  I imagine that J.B. 'snapped' them whilst they weren't looking! The photo I have was taken (I have now discovered) on the back porch of 'Hill Cottage'.  This was not actually a cottage  -unless you are one of those New York plutocrats who had a holiday 'cottage' at Newport, Long Island, in which case think 'Versailles' rather than Anne Hathaway!  The photo may have been taken on, or near, Feb. 14 1919, at which point the Commission decamped to 18 Rue de la Marche, Spa.  It eventually went on to Cologne.  Haking went on to take charge in Russia and the Baltic, so it is possible also, that, since he isn't amongst them, he had already been sent there.

 

A previous tenant of 'Hill Cottage' had been someone or other called Ludendorff.

 

The War Diary of the Commission is presently available on the NA website and I scoured it for suitable names, which is how I was able to identify Ltn Melhuish.  I definitely recognise several of the names referred to above, Bingemann certainly rings a bell, in passing.  I recommend you look at it, should you be interested, but don't leave it too long, I think it will only be available for a limited period.

 

I think I recognise another face, too, that of A.R McClure, a private in the Northumberland Fusiliers, who is at top centre.  I am pretty sure that he is there and this may also be the clue as to why this little group of photos appears in the middle of an album otherwise dedicated to photographs of two big power stations in the NE, Dalville and Philadelphia.  I cannot be sure, but it is possible that one of the characters posed beside a large bit of machinery in one of the photos is him.  It would certainly make sense that a man with experience of electrical engineering would end up in such a squad.

 

So there you are.  I lay this before you as exhibit A.  It might (or might not) be the reason why such a disparate little band is found all in one place, particularly since P. B. Melhuish was amongst them with his pen at the ready?

 

all the best

Duncan

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Duncan Mirylees

P.S. regarding the J B Melhuish cartoon, I hadn't realised that it had been posted so long ago.  I wonder if anyone is still interested?

 

There is one mistake in someone's post.  ecmartin posted a list of personel he was able to read the names of on the cartoon, A. R McClure.  There were, unfortunately several of this name.  He plumped for the one from the Northumberland Fusiliers.  I think, instead, he should have gone for the A. R. McClure, who was a Lt Royal Engineers, 30th Divisional Signal Coy, hence the earphones?  He had previously been with the Hon. Artillery Coy.

 

Oh well, somebody might read this!

 

Duncan

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Open Bolt

Good work Duncan, 14 years is a mere drop in the ocean...

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Duncan Mirylees

Dear Open Bolt,

 

Thanks for yours.  This is the first time I have ever done anything like this.  I am not a military historian as such, but love to research the background of old photographs, like the ones I have.  Along with the two I quoted, there are two showing an army camp within an old farm, with brick barns and a row of pre Nissen Nissen huts, one of which is a hospital.  It is obviously connected because you can clearly see a huge radio (sorry wireless!) aerial  -and a boxing ring!.  I would love to find out where this was.  It may have been a temporary HQ before the Commission moved into Ludendorff's old gaff.  I'll keep digging.

cheers

Duncan

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Duncan Mirylees

P.S.  Can anyone tell me please, where the original cartoon/sketch that J B Melhuish did in March 1918, is.  It was posted by ecmartin, who seems to have been in Newfoundland some years ago, on Jan.10 2007.

Many thanks

Duncan

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Gardenerbill

Hi Duncan, have you tried sending a Personal Message (see letter symbol at the top of the webpage) to the original poster, the forum may still have a valid email address for him. When you send a PM the receiver gets a notification email.

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21 minutes ago, Gardenerbill said:

Hi Duncan, have you tried sending a Personal Message (see letter symbol at the top of the webpage) to the original poster, the forum may still have a valid email address for him. When you send a PM the receiver gets a notification email.

 

Don't you need to have 5 posts or so to be able to do that?

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