SFayers Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Barrie, If your kind offer is still open, I wonder if you could help me out? My wife's g granddad was serving with the 11th (Service) Battalion Cameron Highlanders at the end of the war. He died (I'm assuming either from wounds, illness or accidental injuries) on the 7th May 1919 and is buried in Ascq Communal Cemetery. I wonder if you have access to the battalion's war diary (and if it covers this period) if you could check if there's mention of any incidents at this time, or at least where the battalion was and what it was up to? I'm guessing they were involved with battlefield clearances. If it helps, the chap in question is Private 223138 John Paterson Young (formerly KOSB and Lancashire Fusiliers). According to my father-in-law his granddad died 'after his horse trod on a land mine' - though being an infantryman what he'd have be doing on a horse, or if indeed there were any land mines used in the first world war I have no idea! Best regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SFayers Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Barrie, If your kind offer is still open, I wonder if you could help me out? My wife's g granddad was serving with the 11th (Service) Battalion Cameron Highlanders at the end of the war. He died (I'm assuming either from wounds, illness or accidental injuries) on the 7th May 1919 and is buried in Ascq Communal Cemetery. I wonder if you have access to the battalion's war diary (and if it covers this period) if you could check if there's mention of any incidents at this time, or at least where the battalion was and what it was up to? I'm guessing they were involved with battlefield clearances. If it helps, the chap in question is Private 223138 John Paterson Young (formerly KOSB and Lancashire Fusiliers). According to my father-in-law his granddad died 'after his horse trod on a land mine' - though being an infantryman what he'd have be doing on a horse, or if indeed there were any land mines used in the first world war I have no idea! Best regards Steve That'll teach me to pay more attention - I just noticed you're talking about Scottish Rifles and not Cameron Highlanders! Doh! Cheers Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 29 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Apologies people - I'm not in the office today but I will try and catch up with any look ups when I go back next week. John, is the book you have bound in leather with the Cameronian crest on the front in gold? The roll of honour seems to be pretty incomplete (least the version I have is) and I notice that alot of information regarding awards and such is missing. Its good for a quick casualty check, but really needs to be backed up with a search on CWGC or SDGW (or both!). Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltoro1960 Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Barrie my book is not bound in leather and appears to have been reinofrced with tape at some time , heres a scan And the inside cover Must confess that I had nor researched much until your post prmpted me to do a wee bit more, now I will have to go the full nine yards. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob18 Posted 29 December , 2006 Share Posted 29 December , 2006 Hi Barrie, If you get a chance would it be possible to see if you have anything on a Patrick Cassidy's service around the time of the Boer War. He served in the 2nd Scottish Rifles around 1900 for 7 years, and re-enlisted in 1914 for World War 1. Unfortunately I don't have a service number for him at the time of the Boer War, but he was Pte 9421, 8th Batt. Cameronians. He was killed in action 19 June 1915. My great-grandfather Pte 9757 Robert Cameron, was also in the 8th Batt. Cameronians and was killed in action on the 28th June 1915, when it seems a lot of the 8th Battalion were killed. I don't suppose there would be anything for Patrick or Robert at this time, but would be grateful if you could check. Thanks, Rob Cameron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 30 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2006 John, I think its the same book as we have, except ours has been bound - more thank likely it was in the officers mess at some point. Rob, i'll have a look when I'm in next, but I'm not hopeful of finding much on the Boer war, we really don't have a lot of information on that one. As for the 8th Bn in June 1915, they would have been in Gallipoli at that point, taking heavy casualties. I'll see what the war diary says and let you know. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjr Posted 31 December , 2006 Share Posted 31 December , 2006 i am searching for information on my Great Uncle Alexander MacRae, i have searched the C.W.G.C. and the results show based on the limited information i have that he may have served with the 6th battalion Cameron Highlanders k.i.a. 17 September 1916. i would like to confirm if this in fact my Great Uncle and having read some of your entries i am hoping you may be able to direct me to unit diaries or roll calls for the unit so i can confirm that this is my Great Uncle, any help provided will be greatly appreciated i am new at this sort of thing thanks Alex J. MacRae Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 31 December , 2006 Share Posted 31 December , 2006 Hi Alex and welcome to the forum. I'm afraid that you have made a mistake which more experienced folks than you sometimes make - the Cameronians were the first battalion the Scottish Rifles. The Cameron Highlanders are a completely different regiment. I suggest that you have a really good read around the 'Long Long Trail' site (link near top of page) and then post whatever info you have in a new topic in the 'Soldiers' section. There are many experts here only too happy to help. Good luck, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexjr Posted 31 December , 2006 Share Posted 31 December , 2006 Hi Alex and welcome to the forum. I'm afraid that you have made a mistake which more experienced folks than you sometimes make - the Cameronians were the first battalion the Scottish Rifles. The Cameron Highlanders are a completely different regiment. I suggest that you have a really good read around the 'Long Long Trail' site (link near top of page) and then post whatever info you have in a new topic in the 'Soldiers' section. There are many experts here only too happy to help. Good luck, Ian thanks i will try posting in soldiers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verent Posted 1 January , 2007 Share Posted 1 January , 2007 Dave, I'm afraid I don't know enough about Cameronian Service numbers (yet ) to be of much use on this one. The Medal Rolls at the National Archives should hopefully tell you when he transferred. Sorry, Barrie Thank you, Barrie. You didn't say but I assume there was no mention in the Diaries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Sorry Dave, no mention in the war diary. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Ian, I'm trying to make some sense of Websters subsequent service in the 3rd Battalion - and getting nowhere fast! The 3rd Bn were the Special Reserve Battalion of the Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) - the 4th Bn being the Extra Special Reserve. When war broke out in 1914, the 3rd Bn was mobilised and sent to Nigg in Ross-shire, where it remained until 1918 when it was sent to Invergordon and in 1919, to Bridge of Allan. Later that year it was sent to Ireland, and was later used to help rebuild the 1st battalion. From what I can gather, the 3rd basically ceased to exist (in any real form) in late 1919, early 1920. Nowhere can I find any mention of the 3rd bn serving anywhere overseas other than Ireland in 1919. During the duration of the war however, the 3rd bn had sent out in total, reinforcing drafts of 1174 officers and 57,265 other ranks. If Webster had been drafted from the 3rd into the 1st (or even the 2nd) in 1919, I still can't figure out how he ended up in Turin and Alexandria. The 1st bn remained in Ireland until 1922, when it returned to England, and then moved out to China in 1927. The 2nd Bn moved out to India in 1919, where it remained until 1929, discounting the year 1923/24 which was spent in Iraq. Is there anything mentioned about his time with the 3rd in his Service Papers? I'd really like to get to the bottom of this one - so far you have confounded me at every turn! First with your postcards of the kilted Cameronians, then with your Cams on horseback, and now with the phantom 3rd in Egypt, 1919! Barrie P.S. I forgot to ask, does it mention in his papers where he enlisted, and where he was from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verent Posted 3 January , 2007 Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Hello there good people of Forum land, and a Merry Christmas to one and all. I trust a certain Mr Claus was kind to you all and that everyone had a lovely time. Seeing I was a little late in getting into the Christmas spirit, I've decided to make amends for my Scrooge-like attitude of the past couple of weeks. As I am the only one in my office for the rest of the week, and 'proper' work is rather thin on the ground, I thought I would put my time to good use. So, for the rest of the week I am prepared to offer my time (and resources) to the good people of the Forum. If you have any Cameronian queries - post them up and I will see what can be done. We have most of the WW1 war diaries, as well as all the regimental and battalion histories, plus a few other odds and ends. Yours in boredom, Barrie Hello again Barrie, Thank you for all the replies on this site. Can you tell me if the 10th (Service) Cameronians was involved in the March 1918 "Operation Michael". This was about the time my father was badly wounded and carried on the shoulders of "A big Scotsman"? Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 3 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2007 Dave, There is no mention of Operation Michael in the war diary, the battalion history, or the regimental history. If you would like to know what the 10th Bn were up to in March 1918, pm me your email address and I'll forward you on an extract of the war diary. Cheers, Barrie P.S. I haven't forgotten about the all the other look-ups, I will send on various scans over the next couple of days - if your still waiting for stuff on Friday, please PM me cos it's all got a little bit confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Hi Barrie, Sorry that Herbert Webster's service record is proving a puzzle! I thought of PMing this or sending a direct e-mail but there may be someone 'out there' who can supply an answer or two. He came from Halifax, Yorks and enlisted at Hamilton on 9th August, 1898. Posted 2nd Sco Rifles 30th Sept 1898. Posted to 1st battalion 26th April, 1902. There is a 'certificate of character' from the post office (where he had worked prior to getting recalled in 1914) saying that he had resigned 'to rejoin the army'. His statement of service has him posted to the 3rd battalion on 19th March, 1919 and to the depot on 29th August, 1919. Family word has it that he survived the Boer War and the Great War unscathed but was wounded in Ireland. We have six postcards, dated from the 7th May to 11th June 1919 and posted in Reggio, Bari, Taranto, Alexandrea, Victoria Camp Alexandria and Port Said. They are all marked 'Sergeant Major Webster, 3rd Scottish Rifles' and most are marked 'MEF' (M---Expeditionary Force?) and 'OAS' which I take to mean On Active Service. The card from Victoria Camp dated 23rd May, 1919 says 'The General had an inspection of the draft this morning. Nothing about date of return yet.' The last card, dated 11th June, 1919, says 'We are still here (Port Said) but I expect to sail on the Danube tomorrow the 12th.' Nothing like a good mystery, is there? Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 4 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2007 No need to apologise Ian, it's fascinating (if somewhat frustrating) stuff! I've no idea where else to look for info on the 3rd, but I'm not giving up yet. On a slightly different note, the photograph you have of Webster in a kilt shows him wearing the sporran of a piper from the 1st Battalion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Dear Confused of Hamilton, M.E.P. = Mesopotamian Expeditionary Force? The sporran news is interesting. His kilt survived until the 60s or 70s when it was devoured by moths! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Just for interest, a rather poor faded photo used as a backing on the Mounted Infantry one, this shows the victorious football team of B Company, Cameronians out in India in 1905. A fine figure of a Cameronian on the right! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 4 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Ian, Found something that may be connected but then again may be totally unrelated. Its regarding the 11th Bn and their service following the armistice. After being stationed for several months occuping the ports on the western shores of the Black Sea, the 11th bn were ordered to Egypt to take up internal security duties. They left Varna on the 19th of April 1919. Supposedly it was now necessary to have troops present to prevent rioting, and to also help guard a number of prisoner of war camps. By the middle of June 1919 conditions in Alexandria had reverted to normal, and it was possible to reduce the garrison. The 11th Bn then moved to Cairo, where it remained until it's disbandment in December 1919. I wonder if it is possible if a unit of the 3rd was sent in 1919 to take up similar duties. Everything I've read about that time only mentions the 3rd Bn being absorbed into the 1st in Ireland, and although there is talk of the new 1st battalion sending out 3 drafts to India over 1919-1920, there is no mention of these units serving in any of the places Webster was stationed Do you have a rough idea of when Webster might have died, there is a good chance he may have an obituary in the Covenanter, which might give a little bit of info on his service - especially if it was fairly unusual. Other than that, I think i'm stumped! As for the kilt, was he a piper himself? From what I can tell from photographs we have, the 1st battalion pipers seem to have worn a dark sporran with 2 white tassells, while the 2nd battalion wore a slightly lighter sporran, but with three dark tassells. In later photographs (post-Great War and beyond) you tend to see the pipers wearing a mixture of sporrans, whihc only adds more confusion to it all. At that time that pic was taken however, I think it's safe to say Webster is wearing a 1st Bn sporran. My head hurts! Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 4 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Ian, I had meant to mention that group photograph before. I'm pretty sure the officer seated in the middle with the shield at his feet is C. B. Vandeleur, who had a long and distinguished career with the Regiment. The shield is called The Cameronians Regimental Challenge Shield, and there is a photograph from 1911, again with Vandeleur proudly showing off the trophy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Barrie, You are a star - the lengths that forum members will go to to help others never ceases to amaze me! I think that you have already looked for my ggf (signature) in the regimental history and war diary without success - as expected. Roxy MEF = Mediterranean Expeditionary Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 I agree, sterling work from Barrie! Herbert Webster died 28th April, 1956. Your theory of the 3rd sending out a draft to support the 11th sounds good to me. We are going to ask aged aunt if the sporran survives. Cheers, Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 4 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Thanks Roxy I double checked for Roberts, nothing I'm afraid. Have you seen the war diary entry for the Battle of Loos? If your interested PM me your email and I'll send it along. We also have quite a good battalion history which is good for fleshing out the war diary. Not transcribed yet but easily scanned Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roxy Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 Barrie, Thanks. I have already had a transcript from Hambo, and I've also been to the museum - well done. I was also recently able to access some records at the library at JSCSC Shrivenham. Roxy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanA Posted 4 January , 2007 Share Posted 4 January , 2007 P.S. No, Webster was never a piper. His specialities were comb & paper and the bones. (Not at the same time.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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