The 20 minuters

[Matt Dixon]

Tried to see if this has been a thread before but with no success.

Was this expression really used during WW1, and if so who first coined the phrase?

If it really was the case that life expectancy was only 20 minutes, how on earth did anyone actually join up!

[john w.]

No idea MAtt but Blackadder tried it and just lasted a little longer... when Flasheart saved him...

John

[GWRCo]

......and the Womens Balloon Corps sounds an excellent choice in careers! Fnar fnar!!

GWRCo

[Killratio]

Mattpdixon,

I have no knowledge of just when the term originated, probably around April '17. There are various figures quoted from 20 minutes to 3 weeks. All are very subjective. I know of a case where a pilot died in an accident over his own aerodrome within two hours of arriving at the front and without ever getting close to an enemy. Another where an observer was killed on a mission so soon after he arrived, that he had not even unpacked his kit.

The simple fact is that if you survived your first few missions, you were likely to live for quite a while. Many of the long surviving Aces who were killed, suffered bad luck..or pressed their luck once too often.

The main ally of a pilot is SA, situational awareness (although it would be many years hence that the term was coined). New pilots find it very hard to quickly pick up other aircraft. This is problematic in the circuit, frequently fatal in combat.

Pilots have recounted that on their first mission they failed to see any enemy whilst their flight leader saw a sky full.

Not much of an answer...but there it is.

regards

Darryl

[Matt Dixon]

No that was very helpful. I did wonder whether Blackadder had plagerised the phrase or whether they had really taken it from the WW1 dictionary.

Regardless of where the phrase came from, I think they were all mad!

Many thanks!

[John_Hartley]

Matt

Martin Middlebrooke in "Kaisers Battle" gives some stats for 56 Squadron which suggest that the average stay with squadron was 10 weeks and five days. 41% left through death, 16% from being wounded, 28% taken prisoner and 15% to home establishment.

His point in that appendix to the book is to de-bunk the theory of the "three week" subaltern or pilot.

John

[ianw]

Whilst Martin may have been successfully debunking the "3 Week" myth, his own figures suggesting an 85% chance of death, wounding or capture within 11 weeks hardly establish Great War military aviation as a career choice with job security and promotion prospects !

As with all (mean ?) average figures, a significant number will have hit the 3 to 4 week "lifespan" figure bang on the nose , especially given the pronounced "learning curve" problems for those newly arrived.

[Guest Pete Wood]

Whilst Martin may have been successfully debunking the "3 Week" myth, his own figures suggesting an 85% chance of death, wounding or capture

That figure shocked me, last night, when I saw it in print. But the statistics mentioned, over a longer period, are too low.

What percentage of those 15% who went on to home establishment then met their death in the UK, Canada, Australia etc. The small amount of research I have done, suggests that Martin Middlebrooke's 'casualties' figure of 85% is on the conservative side.

How many aircrew were wounded, recovered and returned to duty only to be killed later....??

Admittedly, and I reiterate, I am going outside the 11 week frame that was quoted. But I think it would be even more un-nerving to find out how many aircrew SURVIVED the war.

If you break it down by length of service, the law of averages state that if you flew before 1918, you have only a slim chance of survival......

[Guest Tom Brearley]

Ah, but if you flew early enough you had a good chance of flying a desk by 1918. Due to the huge expansion of the RFC there was great demand for C.O.'s, staff officers etc etc.

It might also be worth pointing out that 56 Squadron was the 'crack' fighter squadron in the RFC and part of 9 Wing, which was used as a flying reserve. Therefore wherever the fighting was fiercest 56 would be there.

Figures from No.2 and 3 Australian Flying Corps suggest that average active service in 1918 was 42 weeks for 2 AFC (scouts) and 39 weeks for 3 AFC (corps 2-seaters). Not great, but aircrew did have a sporting chance of completing their 6 month tour of duty.

See http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/index.ph...e+weeks+to+live

for the details.

Tom

[Dolphin]

This is slightly off topic, in that it refers to the airmen who survived, as well as those killed, but there was a very good article by a USAF Doctor in the Summer 2002 edition of 'Over the Front' that dealt with the medical problems faced by airmen. Among other things, the poor blokes suffered from reduced hearing due to cockpit noise (engine and weapons), vibration, cold, noxious fumes and radial acceleration. Then there was also the pschycological impact of combat flying - sometimes attempted to be reduced by excess alcohol and tobacco.

It was a tough life up there.