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Guest Dave Hall

Tyneside Scottish and Irish Brigades

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Guest Dave Hall

I am currently studying history at Sunderland University, and am in the Process of producing my dissertation. This is a study of the Tyneside Scottish and Tyneside Irish Brigades (20th to 27th Northumberland Fusiliers, part of the 34th Division) and their assault on La Boisselle on July 1st 1916.

I am searching for first hand accounts, diaries, letters, photographs and general information regarding these units and this action.

Any help received would be very gratefully recieved as I'm getting stressed with the workload!!

Dave Hall

david.l.hall@blueyonder.co.uk

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Conor Dodd

You should have a look at The First Day on the Somme lots of information and accounts. ISBN 0-141-39071-9

Conor

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Terry Carter

Pen & Sword Books, Barnsley have published two books in their "Pals" series. Tyneside Scottish and Tyneside Irish. They are worth getting if you have not seen them.

Regards

Terry

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Tim Birch

Dave

You may know that the remains of Private George J Nugent 22/1306 (aged 28) 22nd (Tyneside Scottish), Northumberland Fusiliers who was posted missing during the attack on La Boiselle on 1/7/16 were discovered where he had lain for some 80 years, on the rim of the Lochnagar Crater at the end of the last century.

He was re-buried on 1st July 2000 at Ovillers CWGC Cemetery with full military honours. Grave ref 1.A.26A

I was one of hundreds of British who attended the very moving funeral which was held on a beautiful summer's day, with the air full of skylarks, just as they had been on that terrible day all that time ago. Were there any other forum members there?

Tim

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Conor Dodd

There are 2 articles on Tom Morgan's site about George Nugent if you want to read them. Hellfire Corner

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Greenwoodman

Yes, I was there Tim, and I agree it was a most moving experience. I re-visited the cemetery some hours after the event, to find it deserted, the large number of wreathes being the only sign that a special occasion had taken place.

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Jim_Grundy

Tim

I was at Ovillers for Nugent's funeral. It was indeed quite an experience.

Jim

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Hedley Malloch

John Sheen is the guy to talk to. I think he wrote the Pen and Sword books on TI and TS and he is the best-informed man I know on TS and TI. He was the first bloke to use IT to analyse battalion membership by the personal characteristics of the soldiers. He did this in the late 80s/early90s; he put up all eight batallions of TS and TI on an early version of Excel. If you could get a hold of his data-base ... .

He used to do a talk round the WFA branches on the TS and TI. Amongst the many things he discovered was that only 6% of the TI were first generation Irish. There were big problems for the TS and TI to make their numbers so the recruitment net was widely cast. One company was raised in North Ormesby; others were recruited from as far afield as Workington and Liverpool. Of great interest were the 30 or so recruits from the Arab community in South Shields who because of their origin were known as 'smoked geordies'. Nothing is known about them.

John was also the first port of call for the CWGC when George Nugent's remains were discovered. A great guy; one of the unsung heros of Western Front studies.

What a coincidence. I was passing through Sailly-sur-Lys yesterday. It was the TS and TI HQ before the Somme. I called into the Canada Cemetery where there are many TS and TI buried.

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Paul Reed
John Sheen is the guy to talk to... He was the first bloke to use IT to analyse battalion membership by the personal characteristics of the soldiers. He did this in the late 80s/early90s; he put up all eight batallions of TS and TI on an early version of Excel.

Quite a claim!

Actually, to my knowledge the first person to do it was John Garwood on a BBC computer (?) for the 11th East Lancs (Accrington Pals). That was in the mid-80s. He used some of the material for his later book on the Chorley Pals.

When I was at Uni in the mid-80s I put a number of Royal Sussex Bns on a database (forget which, now) which the Uni had - and am sure I wasn't the only one applying new technology to old style research.

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Hedley Malloch
Actually, to my knowledge the first person to do it was John Garwood on a BBC computer (?) for the 11th East Lancs (Accrington Pals). That was in the mid-80s. He used some of the material for his later book on the Chorley Pals.

I am very interested. However, I cannot find any details of this book. Can you supply further and better details of John Garwood's book? I cannot find it.

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Paul Reed

Garwood, John The Chorley Pals (?Richardson Publishing Manchester c.198?) - don't have my copy to hand, however I know at least one of our contributors is connected with this company and is publishing a book on the Salford Pals with them.

Bill Turner also published The Accrington Pals Remembered (Hyndburn Local History Society 1993) which was, I believe, based on an earlier database.

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Simon Furnell

Hello Dave.

I seem to remember seeing some film on a documentry about the Somme,that was reputed to have been taken from the German lines of the Tyneside attack on La Boiselle.

It was just a few seconds and the figures were very distant,yet it is supposedly the only known footage of their long march on the 1st of July.

I cannot remember the name of the documentry,or what it was really about.

All i know is that this footage is out there somewhere.

It maybe at the IWM.

Good luck with the dissertion.

Regards.

Simon Furnell.

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Tim Birch

Simon

I think the footage you describe is on the 1916 film "The Battle of the Somme". The quality is a bit scratchy, but it shows soldiers advancing away from the camera in the open against the skyline, with a trench in the forground. It is probably the Tyneside Irish advancing to-wards the British front line, and is most likely shot from the Tara or Usna Hills.

I shall have to dig out the video film and look at it again, if I can put up with that jaunty piano music for any length of time!

Tim

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laughton

Dave:

Not sure if anything I have may be of interest, but I am an NF student of history and you can find my research at:

http://www.pollutechinternational.com/greatwar/

I think that you are looking prior to my dates of interest but I may have uncovered some of the information you are looking for.

Richard of Canada

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