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Anthony Bagshaw

Leonard Bocking

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Anthony Bagshaw

Would Sarah Ann Bockings marrigae certificate when she married Mr Collins have her first husband on there ie Leonard? And would it say what happened to him?

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Greyhound

Don't think so, Anthony. My grandmother was a widow when she married my grandfather, but there's no mention of her first husband on the MC, just the surname.

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Anthony Bagshaw

Ok thanks, just another thought!!!

You never know unless you ask!!

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Myrtle

Anthony

I have been reading this thread with interest since the beginning and have continually wondered if you have checked Leonard Bockin(g)'s Railways connections ? If he worked for the railways at the time of his death, there should be a record. Noel has mentioned this as an area of research a couple of times. ;)

Myrtle

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nhclark
What i find strange though, he has a birth certificate, marriage but no death, WHY??

Anthony, I know that this is not helping in your particular case, but...

...there are various circumstances that can lead to there being, apparently, no death registration.

The most obvious is that the death was not actually registered in the first place. I have, apparently, just such a case in 1856, with a soldier who had returned ill from the Crimea, and who died of his illness in Portsea, Hampshire. I have a death date (from the muster rolls) but there is no army death registration, nor a civil registration. The most likely explanation is that both his original regiment, the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot, which had left him behind in the Crimea, and the 82nd Foot, which had taken over his pay and had actually brought him home, each thought that the other would carry out the registration.

Then bear in mind that what we look at is an index of death registrations done at the General Register Office, rather than the actual certificates of registrations themselves made by the various Superintendent Registrars. I don't know what the percentage is that have missed the indexing process, but I'm sure that it is measurable. The indexing was done manually, and, although no-one knows quite how this was done, it is easy to see how any particular death (or birth or marriage) can have been omitted.

Then we have possiblities such as unidenfied people who died in fires or other accidents, and I'm sure that Forum members can think of plenty more reasons why a particular registration may have slipped though unseen.

However, in the case of Leonard, we do have a name on a War Memorial. Whoever put it there believed that Leonard died as a result of the War, and almost certainly becasue of service in the War. However, let's suppose that he was not in the military, and served in some other capacity, such as in the Red Cross or similar, or even served a country other than Great Britain? In such circumstances I think we can see that there may very well be no death registration.

Noel

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nhclark

I've put this post up a couple of times, but for some reason I don't think anyone can see it. Forgive me if you've already read it.

Anthony, I know that this is not helping in your particular case, but...

...there are various circumstances that can lead to there being, apparently, no death registration.

The most obvious is that the death was not actually registered in the first place. I have, apparently, just such a case in 1856, with a soldier who had returned ill from the Crimea, and who died of his illness in Portsea, Hampshire. I have a death date (from the muster rolls) but there is no army death registration, nor a civil registration. The most likely explanation is that both his original regiment, the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot, which had left him behind in the Crimea, and the 82nd Foot, which had taken over his pay and had actually brought him home, each thought that the other would carry out the registration.

Then bear in mind that what we look at is an index of death registrations done at the General Register Office, rather than the actual certificates of registrations themselves made by the various Superintendent Registrars. I don't know what the percentage is that have missed the indexing process, but I'm sure that it is measurable. The indexing was done manually, and, although no-one knows quite how this was done, it is easy to see how any particular death (or birth or marriage) can have been omitted.

Then we have possiblities such as unidenfied people who died in fires or other accidents, and I'm sure that Forum members can think of plenty more reasons why a particular registration may have slipped though unseen.

However, in the case of Leonard, we do have a name on a War Memorial. Whoever put it there believed that Leonard died as a result of the War, and almost certainly becasue of service in the War. However, let's suppose that he was not in the military, and served in some other capacity, such as in the Red Cross or similar, or even served a country other than Great Britain? In such circumstances I think we can see that there may very well be no death registration.

Noel

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Andrew Hesketh
Mansfield has not been digistised yet....

Of course not. :lol:

By the way, take anything Myrtle suggests seriously. If anyone can find a needle in a haystack then she can.

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susanhemmings

Catching up with the thread. Had units to spare so went onto findmypast (formerly 1837) to check deaths 1916-1919 for Leonard.

Nothing for him - some for other bocking and bockin - a couple in Mansfield.

Then went back - tried 1915

found:

Quarter March 1915 - Leonard L M Bockin(g) image so bad can hardly read it.

died - Islington - Volume 1b page 364. aged (again image so bad - either 30 - 39 or 29). He would have been approx 32 in 1915 (if he was born in 1883 as we suspect)

*****Will not let me upload but definately Bockin or Bocking as it falls between Bockett and Bocock.

Could it be that he was working on the railway (or boarding a train even) when he met his end. Is this our Leonard. Or could he have been in hospital ??? And what is with the LM initials

*****EDIT; saved as word document: see what you think.....

bocking.doc

and a sideways version so you can see references...when you open it you will need to set the page to "landscape" in pagesetup

bocking.doc

susan.

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Anthony Bagshaw

Andy,

I will see what comes up

Susan,

That really is fantastic, there can't have been many Leonard Bockings knocking around. It must be him, surely!!! :rolleyes:

If it is him, then i suppose there is a possibility that he was enlisting or just enlisted when it happened??

This is exciting and is the end in sight??

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Myrtle

Andrew

Thank you for your vote of confidence regarding needles and haystacks. :)

Anthony /Susan

The Leonard S.M. Bocking who died in 1915 at the age of 39 was the Leonard S.M. Bocking who was born in Stepney and appears in the 1901 census as 26 years old and a resident of Shoreditch. He was a grocer sub postmaster. His father was a grocer and both his parents were London born. However this does not mean that he is not your man as there is always the possibility that he was related to the Bockin(g)s further north.

Myrtle

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susanhemmings

Myrtle, see what you mean - it is an S.

Also checked all births after sept 1911 (when mum maiden name was shown). alas nothing for anywhere with either of possible maiden names.

If this not our man then I, too, have drawn a blank.

Perhaps as you say, the best thing is Railway ancestors connection.

Susan.

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Anthony Bagshaw

Susan, Myrtle,

Thanks for the useful responses, knew too good to be true!!!

Have started a thread asking the forum for a railway look up, we shall see.

Thanks for your continued assistance

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susanhemmings

Will keep checking back here as it is one of those things you cannot let go of. Goodness knows how you feel !

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Anthony Bagshaw
Goodness knows how you feel !

You have no idea!!! :wacko:

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susanhemmings

:blush: not funny.........sorry Anthony

let's keep hoping.

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Myrtle

I still think it's worth checking out the Railway connection (nip: non intended pun). Leonard's mother and father plus nine children lived between two railway workers in Wright's YardBottesford at the time of the 1881 census. Their local pub was also known as The Granby & Railway. You may find it worthwhile looking at the following link and contacting them about the Bockin family.

LINK

Myrtle

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Andrew Hesketh

Anthony,

You may recall on a seperate thread I mentioned to you that the roll of honour for the railway company he worked for is held by Matlock Archives.

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Anthony Bagshaw

Andy,

Thanks, i can't remember that one, will contact them and see what they have.

Thanks for the reminder and info though!

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Anthony Bagshaw

Myrtle,

Thank you, email sent to the society, i will await their reply.

Cheers evryone for the continued support and help, really is appreciated, so thank you

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susanhemmings

Fingers crossed Myrtle and Andrew may have brought leonard nearer...........

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Anthony Bagshaw

Email now also sent to Matlock Archives.

Sue,

Lets hope so, for the sake of my sanity :wacko:

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susanhemmings

Anthony, for all our sakes...

Just ordered the "Railway" staff book (ww1) from Naval and Military press - so you never know. never say never.... Ever... let's hope he is one of the names commemorated at the St Paul's service....

Susan.

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Anthony Bagshaw
so you never know. never say never.... Ever...

Well Susan,

I'm starting to, if his military (or none military service) wants to be found, i'm sure something will turn up, atleast we know who he was, sort of

Coming up to 3 years now i think :wacko:

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susanhemmings

Anthony, I got into a right state yesterday. Stumbled across a chap on Ancestry (Leonard Barrand) born Bottesford - railway engine cleaner and his pension stuff. Mum "Betsey" - but when i looked him up in the census - true enough his grandma was Betsey (Edwards) - nothing much to do with your man, but for a good half hour....... then cannot read much of his wound details, but it looks at one point if he was reported as lunatic. (I may well have misread that bit). Anyway.

I suddenly hd a mad flight of fancy and thought ( having trawled all births, deaths and goodness knows what else) that the couple may have got divorced and he died after his wife got remarried.

But then thought his name would not be on the war memorial. Mind you, it seems they were put there in 1921 but there should still be a death registration for him.

I wonder what happened to all those forms that were filled in when the names were put forward.

OOOOO fingers crossed he may get a mention in the Railway book I now await........ I am joining you in the lunatic ranks......... :)

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Anthony Bagshaw

Susan,

Crikey, and i thought it was just me that it was driving mad!!! :lol:

His name appears cast in the middle of the other names on the Memorial. The Memorial idea was 'born' at the start of 1921 and was unveiled in June 1923. The names on the memorial are cast in Bronze so someone must have put his name forward.

However, what is weird is that on the original documents in the Nottingham Archives there are lists of the names each under, A,B, C etc with name, rank, number, regiment, Next of kin, date of death etc, but for Leonard, again right in the middle of the names, nothing.

But his full name is there, so someone MUST have put his name forward, but who and why?

So he had to have died between 1914 and 1923 at least. Only a gap of 9 years so really it didn't ought to be that difficult to pin him down, you wouldn't have thought, but we know better! I think, but don't have my stuff to hand, that the bronze panels were actually ordered in 1922 and the blue prints survive which show all the names in situe as they are on the memorial. So could be narrowed down to 1922.

Really think that the 1911 Census is going to help, but that's 4 years away and it isn't forced to list him. Then it will be almost 7 years since i started looking for him!

Why-ever his name is on the Memorial, at the moment is beyond me, i really don't have a clue, but i bet if we ever identify him it's going to be really simple and glaringly obvious!!!

I hope so anyway :)

I wonder what happened to all those forms that were filled in when the names were put forward.

Very good question, there wasn't one in the box full of stuff and there was a lot of stuff in that box, would be great to find them, could solve this once and for all

Edited by Anthony Bagshaw

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