Anthony Bagshaw Posted 3 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2008 Christine, What an excellent list, thank you for taking the time to do this. As Andy says, how can he not be listed on either of those that we have checked already. I'll crack on with the question marked ones. Thanks again all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 3 February , 2008 Share Posted 3 February , 2008 Calendars of Probate [correct title] are also in Liverpool's Local History library and I will have a look later this week if no one is quicker. Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 3 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 February , 2008 Daggers, That would be excellent, thank you, it will probably be a few weeks before i would get to go. If you're sure you don't mind? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 3 February , 2008 Share Posted 3 February , 2008 That is a very practical job from Christine. I don't have anything new to add really. I feel sure he didn't serve in any military/naval capacity, as Anthony has shown us his name on the handwritten list, and there's a blank where the unit would be. The most curious thing is the missing death registration. I can only think it was omitted from the index in error. That would mean he does have a death certificate - but if it isn't in the index I don't know how one would find it. These things do happen. I've just managed to ferret out the marriage of a great-uncle whose name appears in solitary splendour on the page where I was directed by the index - I mean, the poor chap must have married somebody! Long story short, I managed to work out who his wife must have been, looked her up in the marriage index, and found her playing gooseberry to another couple on her page - which was one digit different from Charlie's reference. Ergo, a misprint in the GRO index itself - no fault of the FreeBMD indexers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 3 February , 2008 Share Posted 3 February , 2008 Well done Grace. "playing Gooseberry" - that really made me smile...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 4 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2008 The most curious thing is the missing death registration. I can only think it was omitted from the index in error. That would mean he does have a death certificate - but if it isn't in the index I don't know how one would find it. Grace, This is the thing that is the most puzzling. He must have one, how can he have just been missed off? The list that Christine has produced is great, it gives more scope for searches, we will see what comes up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 Oh, easily. Those indexes are just columns of names and figures, and it’s quite feasible that a line might be missed by the person typing it up, or by the typesetters. Good proof-reading should pick up the latter, but things do slip through. Ask anyone who's worked with brochures, timetables, price lists, that sort of thing. Noel said something like this before. Then bear in mind that what we look at is an index of death registrations done at the General Register Office, rather than the actual certificates of registrations themselves made by the various Superintendent Registrars. I don't know what the percentage is that have missed the indexing process, but I'm sure that it is measurable. The indexing was done manually, and, although no-one knows quite how this was done, it is easy to see how any particular death (or birth or marriage) can have been omitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 For what it's worth I've just checked RND casualties and he isn't there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 Well done Andrew, another off the list..... I wonder if it would be worth a trip to the Society of Genealogists in London - just to see if the parish records (the original books i mean) stretch up to 1915-1918.... just a thought. Think I will check their collection and maybe take a trip if it includes Mansfield Woodhouse (assuming that is where the death was registered)...... You never know. Never say never. Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 There's a thought. On a similar note, has anyone checked the National Burial Index? I know it's not complete, but .... But look here, looks like the parish registers can be accessed locally: http://www.nottinghamshire.gov.uk/home/lei...rfindingaid.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 Grace, I did check the NBI on Ancestry - nothing for Leonard. (that could be an old version, mind - even though it claims to be up to date....) I wonder where the original registers are kept for those years. The district registrar must have kept records in order for him to submit these quarterly to (what was once) Somerset House. The only other thing I can think of is actually trawling through the massive volumes in the Family Records Centre as although the lists on Findmypast and Ancestry claim to be "the original" ones, I do wonder. Mind you, thinking about it again, they probably are as some do have scribbles in ink at the bottom of them and little crosses etc where names have been missed..etc etc. Yuk., we will find this..... we must. we are all going potty...... Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 CofE burial records, if at a parish church, would be recorded in a parish register and eventually lodged at the diocesan record office - usually the county RO. Sadly few are indexed and the Mormons (Latter Day Saints) have likewise indexed very few. The Soc of Gen copies are likely to be earlier transcriptions compiled by county societies, but I may be wrong. I hope to see the Probate stuff tomorrow. Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 4 February , 2008 Share Posted 4 February , 2008 According to the Notts CC site, the two Mansfield Woodhouse registers both cover the crucial period, so it's worth Anthony checking out the fiches in his local studies library, if he hasn't already done so. I know he's looked around cemeteries and churchyards, but the grave may not have been marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 4 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2008 According to the Notts CC site, the two Mansfield Woodhouse registers both cover the crucial period, so it's worth Anthony checking out the fiches in his local studies library, if he hasn't already done so. I know he's looked around cemeteries and churchyards, but the grave may not have been marked. Grace, That's next on the list, i'll give them a call to make sure they have them and will arrange to go down. I really can't thank you all for the extremely helpful replies i'm getting, although you lot are doing all the hard work................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Anthony, we are all doing the hard thinking. You will have the slog in the library!!!! Wretched microfilms....fingers crossed Anthony....... And daggers; good luck. Wouldn't it be wonderful if you found Leonard for us....... It would be well worth a good old cyber knees up...... From Society of Genealogists catalogue: Nottinghamshire burials [transcript 1533-c.1906] [CD-ROM.] [sOGNET] AAAARRRRGGGGHHHHH - they end in 1906........like a slippery eel.... slithering through our hands........... I think we would be safer off Hunting the Snark........ ....."We have our brave Captain to thank he gave us a map we could all understand, a perfect and absolute BLANK......." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Calendar of Probate volumes for 1914 to 1923 inclusive seen this morning but no Leonard Bocking I am afraid. The nearest I can offer is in the 1919 volume: a Bernard Bocking, of the Vicarage, Gnosall, Staffs, 2nd Lieut Yorkshire Regt, died 21 August 1918, being killed in action in France. Administration at Lichfield [ie no will] to Rev.John Child Bocking, effects £124.1s.8d. Bernard could be a bad misreading of Leonard, if you close your eyes by 75%! What must be a brother, in the 1918 volume: John Webb Bocking [same address] 2nd Lieut King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry, d. 24 April 1918 in France being killed in action. Admin as above, effects £250.17s.3d. I regret I have not read through all the previous posts to see if these names have been offered before, and did not have time left to go through alternative spellings. One thought - if someone has access to a contemporary Crockford's Clerical Directory, it should give the previous posts held by Rev JCB as vicar or curate, which might account for the apparently unrelated geography. I leave you with those thoughts Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Calendar of Probate volumes for 1914 to 1923 inclusive seen this morning but no Leonard Bocking I am afraid. Has anyone postulated the 'abducted by aliens' theory yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Posts 213 ff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daggers Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Rev JC Bocking, father of the two I found in the probate lists, was married at Middlesbrough, and was vicar of Gnosall from 1905-1937, for what that is worth. New theory: what if LB was engaged to a local lass and that connection was used to place his name on the memorial, but they got it wrong, the fiancee too distraught to notice? What would be the time-lag between a kia and the creation of the memorial? Many years in some cases. Has anyone local knowledge of Gnosall and its newspapers of 1918 to see if there is any obit of Bernard alias Leonard?? Daggers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 This is not the answer.... Perhaps he served as Major William Martin, R.M..... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
susanhemmings Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Oh Andrew, if only, if only. Leonard Bockin Year of Registration: 1883 Quarter of Registration: Oct-Nov-Dec District: Grantham (1837-1933) County: Leicestershire, Lincolnshire Volume: 7a Page: 456 (click to see others on page) 1891 CENSUS 1891 England Census about Leonard Bockin Name: Leonard Bockin Age: 7 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Bottesford, Leicestershire, England Civil Parish: Bottesford Ecclesiastical parish: Bottesford Town: Bottesford County/Island: Leicestershire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Grantham Sub-registration district: Grantham South ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Neighbors: View others on page Household Members: Name Age Ada M Bockin 10 Edith Bockin 3 Elizabeth Bockin 47 Grace Bockin 5 John Bockin 46 Leonard Bockin 7 Robert I Bockin 13 and 1901 CENSUS 1901 England Census about Leonard Bockin Name: Leonard Bockin Age: 17 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1884 Relation: Son Father's Name: John Mother's Name: Elizabeth Gender: Male Where born: Bottesford, Leicestershire, England Civil Parish: Bottesford Ecclesiastical parish: Bottesford St Mary Town: Bottesford County/Island: Leicestershire Country: England Street address: Occupation: Condition as to marriage: Education: Employment status: View Image Registration district: Grantham Sub-registration district: Grantham South ED, institution, or vessel: 22 Neighbors: View others on page Household schedule number: 204 Household Members: Name Age Edith Bockin 13 Elizabeth Bockin 57 John Bockin 56 Leonard Bockin 17 Robert J Bockin 24 BockinG deaths Army...... Fred 1910 looks like R. F. London Harry 1917 looks like Guppa??? Stephen 1917 KRRC William 1915 Manch. and Bernard 1918 2nd Lt. R and East York Regiment but these all Bockin G....... but then again????? flip me...... Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Variations in spelling aren't unusual, and war memorials are no exception. I'm sure lots of forum members can provide examples. A digression: here's another illustration of human error in the GRO index. I was looking for a marriage, and found Sarah on a page with another girl - and the same chap twice! Now I don't think that was ever legal, so I had a look for her in the following census. It was the Isle of Sheppey, and she was born in Queenborough as opposed to the usual Sheerness or Minster, and with the added advantage of a middle initial I'm confident I found the right one. Sadly she was already a widow, but as she was with her husband's family, it was easy enough to check back for his name. I then checked him in the marriages, viewed the original GRO image, and found that he matched my Sarah for year, quarter, volume and page number. What went wrong? It had been entered as Sheffield instead of Sheppey. This is sometimes why you can't find registrations. At least with a marriage you have another person's details which can lead you to find the mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 5 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Daggers, Thanks for the look up, i appreciate the time taken. Another blank, well that's one more off of the list then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 5 February , 2008 Author Share Posted 5 February , 2008 I'm hoping to get to the library in the next couple of weeks to check the burial records. I would like to go before then but don't think i will get chance. If he's not there, then i don't know!! Glad to see that everyone else is being driven as crazy as me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greyhound Posted 5 February , 2008 Share Posted 5 February , 2008 Remember, he will only be in the parish register if he was buried in one of the churchyards - not if he's in a municipal cemetery. So don't despair if he's not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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