susanhemmings Posted 30 May , 2007 Share Posted 30 May , 2007 Here's to that Noel. I will raise my glass (of soft juice) to him right now. RIP fellow. Susan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 30 June , 2007 Author Share Posted 30 June , 2007 Hi Guys, This is still bugging me and the answer is out there..........somewhere. Are marriage and birth certificates online anywhere please? I have decided to find Leonard's marriage certificate and the birth certificates of his 2 children. His children's birth certificates may have his occupation on them or even may say Leonard Bockin,deceased. I can hope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John G Posted 30 June , 2007 Share Posted 30 June , 2007 Hi Anthony just hunting through the forum and then into your website. I am doing a similar project and I have one of your men on my WM as well(not Bocking, sorry) that you might want some more data on, and maybe you can help me. Private Walter Murrell North Staffs 1st Battalion ( Lichfield (P) Louisa, 5 Stowe Street Alfred, Scott, Charles and Louisa He is on the memorial here and an article appeared in the Lichfield Mercury on 1.9.16. Before working at Park Hall, he worked in the gardens of Stowe House for a Mr Lloyd. In my research I am trying to find birthplace, parents, age and if they were married etc. I have problems trying to find his father. Do you any information regarding this? JPG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 30 June , 2007 Share Posted 30 June , 2007 (edited) Are marriage and birth certificates online anywhere please? We should be so lucky, Anthony You need to find the GRO marriage and birth index records from a site like ancestry.co.uk (free) or findmypast.com (pay site) [or even freeBMD, free of course, and where I got the details below...], then order the certs from http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ - certs cost £7 a go. Jim EDIT: Could this be his marriage? FURTHER EDIT: and could Mabel & Ethel be Leonard's offspring? Edited 30 June , 2007 by Jim Clay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 1 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Jim, You're a star, thank you. So can i order them all through the reference numbers given?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhclark Posted 1 July , 2007 Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Jim, You're a star, thank you. So can i order them all through the reference numbers given?? Anthony, All these references from FreeBMD are not new. They were covered in the posts back in March. It was this information that you used to make the contact on Genes Reunited. Before you order a certificate, please do not regard the FreeBMD transcriptions as 100% accurate. You chould check the actual images available on www.ancestry.co.uk. If you give the wrong reference to the GRO you will not, in general, get your certificate and you will lose your money. But take a breath mate. All these events precede WW1. They therefore precede his death. They will give his occupation, address etc. , the marriage certificate will give his father's name, but they certainly won't say "deceased." The best you're going to get is that he was already in the regular army. As far as I'm concerned your best bet is the certificate for the birth of Ethel in 1908. I can't see that the others will add anything. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Clay Posted 1 July , 2007 Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Anthony Noel is quite right! Just shows, it helps to re-read a thread before jumping in Sorry to give you 'false hope' - but you'll pin your man down eventually; persistence will pay off Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 1 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Noel, Jim, Thanks again for your contributions. I want the certificates to satisfy my own interest really, maybe went a bit OTT when i said the birth certificate might show deceased, of course it won't, not in 1908 anyway!!! Just want to work from there and work forwards, you never know it MAY give some sort of clue, especially in 1908 only 6 years before the war. There has to be something somewhere, there HAS to be, doesn't there?? I'm not giving up on this, i want to expire every single path that i can, when i have done that then i'll stop, but for now, there's enough for me to go on!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 1 July , 2007 Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Can't find any record on the BMD's for the daughters having married or died. Another incredibly helpful bit of info from yours truly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 1 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 1 July , 2007 Andy, It all helps, thanks for looking for me!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhclark Posted 2 July , 2007 Share Posted 2 July , 2007 Andy, It all helps, thanks for looking for me!! Anthony. I can confirm that the registration details shown on FreeBMD are correct for the births of: Ethel BOCKIN, 1908, June quarter, Mansfield registration district, volume 7b, page 76; and Mabel BOCKIN, 1906, September quarter, Mansfield registration district, volume 7b, page 64. I can also confirm that the registration details shown on FreeBMD for the marriage of Leonard Bockin are correct: Leonard BOCKIN, 1904, June quarter, Mansfield registration district, volume 7b, page 165. I have checked these against the images of the original registration indexes on www.ancestry.co.uk. If it were me I would proceed by purchasing the birth certificate for Ethel first, as it is the closest to 1914. This certificate will give the names of both Ethel's father and mother, and it will tell you whether the marriage of Leonard Bockin in 1904 is the right one (that is, you will have a match on Leonard Bockin and either Sarah Ann Clarke or Grace Annie Lancashire). It will avoid you wasting money on the marriage certificate if there is no match. You can then decide whether to purchase the birth certificate for Mabel and that for the marriage. I have bought scores of certificates (too many!) and have, I think, only had one "miss", becasue I am very cautious about making assumptions. You incur no extra cost in ordering certificates singly - there is no saving by purchasing them in groups. The turn-around time is excellent (a matter of a few days), so the little extra delay in taking a step-wise approach is not a significant issue. Some time in 2008 the GRO will be releasing new on-line indexes that will include the mother's name for all births, so you will be able to see whether Leonard and his wife had any further children. The new marriage indexes will also show the spouse's surname for all marriages. So the alternative to purchasing certificates is to wait for these new indexes. However, if you're like me, 2008 is too long to wait for my curiosity (and in my case I might not last that long!). To order the certificates on line go to http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/home.asp and click on the link under "shortcuts" entitled "Ordering certificates on line." There is a registration step, but this is a formality. Then you just follow the links. I'm sure that you will let us know how you get on. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 2 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 2 July , 2007 Noel, As ever, thank you for your help and insight!!! I really need the 1911 census, but then again don't we all!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 19 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 July , 2007 I'm sorry for dragging this back up, but it's bugging me again!! Why would there not be a death certificate for him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keggy65 Posted 19 July , 2007 Share Posted 19 July , 2007 I'm sorry for dragging this back up, but it's bugging me again!! Why would there not be a death certificate for him? Anthony - I know it's not much help but I have several ancestors who don't appear in the BMD records (particularly Death) no matter how I search and I know they died in England, just not when. I wish I could find an explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 19 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 July , 2007 Mabel, Thanks for the reply. It's weird and just adding more to the mystery, i won't ever give up trying to find out who Leonard Bockin was, i know i have a history and we have found him, but would love to find when he died at least! What i find strange though, he has a birth certificate, marriage but no death, WHY?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 July , 2007 Share Posted 19 July , 2007 What i find strange though, he has a birth certificate, marriage but no death, WHY?? A number of possible reasons:- He is there on the Overseas Deaths under the assumed name he served under An Overseas Death certificate was not issued (One of my original researchees was like this - complicated the CWGC recognition process) He died in, say, Ireland whilst on service. Or, perhaps, emigrated after the war but was still remembered locally when he died. He didnt actually die (if you see what I mean). I have a similar case - chap is commemorated on 3 Stockport area memorials. Not a bloody trace of his death. I have much sympathy with you - it must be doin' yer 'ead in. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Clark Posted 19 July , 2007 Share Posted 19 July , 2007 Have you tried very carefully searching the local civil cemeteries where he came from for his headstone or members of his family (bearing in mind the very unusual surname)? Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhclark Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 What i find strange though, he has a birth certificate, marriage but no death, WHY?? Anthony, I know that this is not helping in your particular case, but... ...there are various circumstances that can lead to there being, apparently, no death registration. The most obvious is that the death was not actually registered in the first place. I have, apparently, just such a case in 1856, with a soldier who had returned ill from the Crimea, and who died of his illness in Portsea, Hampshire. I have a death date (from the muster rolls) but there is no army death registration, nor a civil registration. The most likely explanation is that both his original regiment, the 44th (East Essex) Regiment of Foot, which had left him behind in the Crimea, and the 82nd Foot, which had taken over his pay and had actually brought him home, each thought that the other would carry out the registration. Then bear in mind that what we look at is an index of death registrations done at the General Register Office, rather than the actual certificates of registrations themselves made by the various Superintendent Registrars. I don't know what the percentage is that have missed the indexing process, but I'm sure that it is measurable. The indexing was done manually, and, although no-one knows quite how this was done, it is easy to see how any particular death (or birth or marriage) can have been omitted. Then we have possiblities such as unidenfied people who died in fires or other accidents, and I'm sure that Forum members can think of plenty more reasons why a particular registration may have slipped though unseen. However, in the case of Leonard, we do have a name on a War Memorial. Whoever put it there believed that Leonard died as a result of the War, and almost certainly becasue of service in the War. However, let's suppose that he was not in the military, and served in some other capacity, such as in the Red Cross or similar, or even served a country other than Great Britain? In such circumstances I think we can see that there may very well be no death registration. Noel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Anthony Another possibility....my local heritage library holds the burial records for the two civic cemeteries in Stockport. They are ledgers, so easy to skim through. My man wasnt there though. but you never know with Leonard. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Anthony Further to the above....if you could find where his widow is buried the headstone may mention him (even he if is not buried in the same grave) Apologies if I am instructing an elderly relative in the science of egg-sucking. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 20 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Noe, Once again, thank you for your insight and helpful reply. John, No egg-sucking, extremely helpful!!! Thank you I think you may be on to something, i hadn't even thought of that!! I have checked all headstones in Mansfield Woodhouse cemeteries but not the one in the Mansfield, probably because it is so huge, it really is, would take me days to search them all. I will be down the library tomorrow finding out if they have a register similar to that which you mention. Thanks for your help and very useful info!! Cheers Just quickly checked FBMD, is this her? View Record Name Year of Registration Quarter of Registration Spouse's Surname DISTRICT County View Image View Record Sarah Ann Bockin 1904 Jul-Aug-Sep township Nottinghamshire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 20 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Now, her death certificate........Sarah Ann Collins i presume?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 20 July , 2007 Share Posted 20 July , 2007 I think you may be on to something, i hadn't even thought of that!! I have checked all headstones in Mansfield Woodhouse cemeteries but not the one in the Mansfield, probably because it is so huge, it really is, would take me days to search them all. I will be down the library tomorrow finding out if they have a register similar to that which you mention. Good idea from John. Check whether the Notts Family History Society can help. The Derbyshire version has registered all memorialised names in most Derbyshire cemeteries. I have the Tibshelf one and it's been invaluable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 20 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 July , 2007 Andy, Cheers for that, email sent fingers crossed!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 21 July , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 July , 2007 This gets better! Mansfield has not been digistised yet, looks like i'm off all day in the cemetery! think i will take a brolly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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