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john-g

North Russian campaign 1919

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MartH

john_g

Do you have any info on Lieutenant Hungell who force landed on the sea and was lost. He's not on the CWGC site. This is according to Agars' book. haven't found my copy of Bennett yet.

Regards

Mart

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john-g

MartH

Sorry I have never heard of the man, I might be able to sort something out after Xmas? I have checked my 1919 Air Force List and he is not included, I cannot find any reference about him in other publications.

john_g.

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John Gilinsky
John Gilinsky

Thanks John, excellent news about the location and the book, which I have searched for and not been able to locate, any chance of a scan or pdf of the relevant pages?

John

I am truly sorry but not likely. I am sure that if you are near a major British city that they would most likely even have a copy of the book. It really is a fairly short hardboud list of gravesites.

Perhaps someone can scan the relevant page quoted if they have the book? My copy is now in storeage.

John

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john-g

John Gilinsky

Thanks for letting me know. I live in central England so I could try a few second hand book sellers. I have searched ABE and other book sellers on line but without any luck.

Cheers

john_g

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john-g

Norman Samuel Taylor

I have just received his casualty card from the RAFM.

The S.N.O. (Senior Naval Officer?) from HMS Vindictive at Biorke reported that on 14/8/19 Taylor died of a fractured skull at Kolvisto. It says he was killed on service, no aircraft serial is listed. I think it was W C Hilborn ex 66 Squadron and 28 & 45 squadrons who also died of a fractured skull in Italy whilst flying a Camel, perhaps Taylors head hit the m.g. butts? But I need to do more research on this accident.

Note there are two more spellings of place names, possibly anglicized local place names?

john_g

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JuhaJ
Hello

Me again, I've found my copy of Baltic Episode by Captain Augustus Agar V.C.

He states that July 30th 1919 was the first time aircraft flew over Kronstadt, and did not suffer any casualties.

On the 19th Lieutenant Hungell force landed on the sea and was lost. He's not on the CWGC site.

On the 13th August the first British air casualty was Lieutenant Taylor who crashed taking off from the aerodrome.

Regards

Mart

Hello

"Lieutenant Hungell" is actually lieutenant Hongell of the Finnish Air Force. He crashed in a Friedrichshafen FF49 which operated from the finnish seaplane base at Koivisto.

Juha

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john-g

JuhaJ

Thanks for the news; I thought he must have been flying. The question now is what was he flying?

I have checked The Camel file and N S Taylor is not listed, but on taking a second look, there is a W S Taylor listed flying a Naval Camel N6825 which crashed on 13 August 1919 Lt W S Taylor was killed.

It look like they have the wrong initials and it should read N S Taylor.

I have also been in touch with the Church web page at Koivisto/Primosk and it is confirmed that all grave/head stones were removed at some time.

Cheers

john_g

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JuhaJ

Some additional info:

Taylor in his Camel and a Grain Griffin took off 13.8. at 5:30 pm. Both crashed shortly after take-off, the Griffin force landed at sea with no loss of life. According to the Finnish reports the English personnel suspected sabotage.

Taylor was buried 15.8.

Sources: HMS Vindictive logs (National Archives,Kew) and Finnish reports held in Finnish War Archives

Juha

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john-g
Some additional info:

Taylor in his Camel and a Grain Griffin took off 13.8. at 5:30 pm. Both crashed shortly after take-off, the Griffin force landed at sea with no loss of life. According to the Finnish reports the English personnel suspected sabotage.

Taylor was buried 15.8.

Sources: HMS Vindictive logs (National Archives,Kew) and Finnish reports held in Finnish War Archives

Juha

Juha,

Thanks for the news. I was at Kew last week and tried to find Vindictives logs, but I could only find the pre war ones and then ran out of time, I was down again to day but did not have the time.

I take it that the logs confirn it was N S Taylor rather than W S Taylor?

Cheers

john_g

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john-g

Juha,

Grain Griffin N105 forced landed in the sea and salved by the tug St.Ann from HMS Larkspur on 13/8/19,

This seems to fit the bill? This is from Royal Naval Aircraft Serials and Units 1911-1919 Sturtivant and Page

Cheers

John

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JuhaJ
Juha,

Grain Griffin N105 forced landed in the sea and salved by the tug St.Ann from HMS Larkspur on 13/8/19,

This seems to fit the bill? This is from Royal Naval Aircraft Serials and Units 1911-1919 Sturtivant and Page

Cheers

John

Yes, this appears to be the same Griffin. St.Anne is mentioned as the rescue vessel in Vindictive's log.

By the way, W S Taylor is used as the Camel pilot's name in both in connection witch the accident and when the funeral is mentioned in the log.

Juha

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john-g

Juha,

I will have to take a look at Vindictives log and in AIR76 to see if there was a W S Taylor, let you know when I find the information.

john_g

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JuhaJ

Vindictive's log and Finnish reports give following additional information:

17.9. 1 Strutter crashed , pilot Dawson killed

1 Strutter missing, pilot Unwin (no burial place mentioned)

25.10. 1 aircraft crashed at sea off village of Jukkola (also known as Hannila, further east from styrsudd)

This fits with Cardwell, who does not have a burial place mentioned

Juha

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john-g

Further research revels.

There are two W S Taylor's in AIR76, both are from a Canadian contingent with regimental numbers 172615 & 171778, (they do not have any PI numbers). The first was discharged on 18/01/19 and the other 18/12/18.

There are no W S Taylor's listed in my August 1919 AFL.

There is a N S Taylor.

CWGC a search for W S Taylor did not produce a find but a search for N S Taylor has him being killed on 13/8/1919 at Kiovisto.

Taylor's AIR76 says he was killed on 13/8/19 at Koivista as does his Casualty card.

From the above I believe there is an error HMS Vindictive's log ADM53/6707 and that W S should be N S? Unless any one knows otherwise?

john_g

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