Jump to content
The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

"Stood To," "Stand To" and Language Usage


Nathan Greenfield

Recommended Posts

Pals:

I am in the middle of a debate about whether "Stood To" and "Stand To" are capitalized and take quotation marks. Obviously, if I am quoting someone saying either the words appear in quotation marks. But, if I am narrating, i.e. The 10th Battalion "Stood To" or Stood To or stood to, which is correct.

Cheers,

NMG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Good question, Nathan and one to which I also would like a definitive answer.

I write it as "Stood To". I'm not sure why I do this apart from fact that it looks right to me. I think it's because a verbal order would have been to given to "Stand To" and, if I was narrating this, I would, correctly, put it in quotes. To my eye, to leave it without quotes and in lower case would simply look odd. And, possibly, very odd, depending on what was written immediately after.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree. "Stood To" and "Stand To" now both of you go out and get a life :lol:

Mick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Mick:

The problem is not so much my getting a life as my publisher's proof reader getting one!

NMG

You have to proof read the proof reader!!!! put me down for one of your books whatever its about...sounds like its taken some graft.

Mick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nathan,

The 10th Bn stood-to at 6.00 am.

"The 10th Bn will stand-to at 6.00 am."

Stand-to for the 10th Bn was at 6.00 am.

At 6.00 am the 10th Bn was ordered to 'Stand to'.

Mick

(Freelance editor and proofreader)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

to leave it without quotes and in lower case would simply look odd.

The 10th Bn stood-to at 6.00 am.

No, it doesn't (at least not with the hyphen). I take it all back. Thanks, Mick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Nathan,

The 10th Bn stood-to at 6.00 am.

"The 10th Bn will stand-to at 6.00 am."

Stand-to for the 10th Bn was at 6.00 am.

At 6.00 am the 10th Bn was ordered to 'Stand to'.

Mick

(Freelance editor and proofreader)

Satisfyingly precise and somehow lovely, Mick!

Marina

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Satisfyingly precise and somehow lovely, Mick!

Marina

Your Royal Highness is too kind. If you ever need one of your Proclamations proofread ....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

But why the hyphen?

'The battalion stood to arms' is the original.

So why invent a hyphen [-] in the short version?

Also, Stand To! is a military command, short for 'Stand to arms!' and takes an exclamation mark, much as 'Attention!'.

I see no reason for quotes ['' or ""] at all, they are absent in much contemporary Great War writing.

If in doubt check with the Western Front Association, who know a thing or two.

Perhaps modern usage in the freelance editor and proof-reading trade has lost touch with military origins?

Saying something is so in 2006 doesn't make it so in 1914.

This from an impeccable source:

The places where it does matter are summarized in the Oxford Pocket Fowler's Modern English Usage (2004), the most important being

to make clear the unifying of the sense in compound expressions such as punch-drunk, cost-benefit analysis, or weight-carrying, or compounds in attributive use (that is, in front of the noun), as in an up-to-date list or the well-known performer;

to join a prefix to a proper name (e.g. anti-Darwinian);

to avoid misunderstanding by distinguishing phrases such as twenty-odd people and twenty odd people, or a third-world conflict and a third world conflict;

to clarify the use of a prefix, as in recovering from an illness and re-covering an umbrella;

to clarify compounds with similar adjacent sounds, such as sword-dance, co-opt, tool-like.

to represent the use of a common element in a list of compounds, such as four-, six-, and eight-legged animals.

in dividing a word across a line-break.

Clearly, stand to is not any of these, or if so, which?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

they are absent in much contemporary Great War writing......(SNIP)........

Saying something is so in 2006 doesn't make it so in 1914.

And therein lies my problem. I don't know Nathan's reason for posting the thread but my quest for clarification relates to the modern inexpert readers of my various website pages. To write - The battalion stood to - without further explanation would probably be meaningless to the vast majority of those readers. I think I'll carry on with the quotes or, perhaps for a change, include a hyphen now & again. Maybe both sometimes.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And therein lies my problem. I don't know Nathan's reason for posting the thread but my quest for clarification relates to the modern inexpert readers of my various website pages. To write - The battalion stood to - without further explanation would probably be meaningless to the vast majority of those readers. I think I'll carry on with the quotes or, perhaps for a change, include a hyphen now & again. Maybe both sometimes.

John

But writing 'stood to' serves no purpose because it fails to explain, surely?

I recommend stood to arms,

or a footnote!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Perhaps modern usage in the freelance editor and proof-reading trade has lost touch with military origins?

I make no claim of period authenticity for the use of the hyphen. I offered it for two reasons, firstly to unify the concept and avoid confusion in the mind of a modern reader, and secondly to avoid the intrusiveness of capitalisation or quotation marks. Direct quotes from contemporary published sources should, of course, be reproduced as originally printed. Quotes from laxly-punctuated handwritten sources are generally punctuated with as light a hand as possible, adding punctuation only where absolutely necessary to achieve clarity — unless, of course, the hurried nature of the original writing is part of the reason for citing it.

Mick

Link to comment
Share on other sites

avoid confusion in the mind of a modern reader

I'm starting to feel like that character in the "Fast Show" (quotes and capitals). You know - the one who can never make his mind and agrees, in turn, with each of his mates' comments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The question originated in a discussion with my editor. I'm just now doing the final edit on a book on the Canadians at 2nd Ypres that will be published here in Canada in the late spring of '07.

NMG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Surely Stand To was ordered a half an hour before first light.

John

Link to comment
Share on other sites

stand down, stand by, stand to, front up, throw up, kick off (he kicked off)

these are all examples of idiomatic intransitive phrasal verbs. As such they can be written like any one-word verb.

"March". The men marched.

"Stand to !". The men stood to.

Hypothetical exchange :-

"Stand to !".

"Do you want me to stand to in the idiomatic intransitive phrasal verb sense like in throw up ?".

"&^% yer on a charge".

I think the equivalent nouns are expressed as single words as they have a specific meaning :-

standdown, standto, kickoff

I would include a footnote or glossary for such terms as stand to in a work for military novices.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...