Beaumont Hamel

[paul guthrie]

I am looking a page 57 of the new - and last - Battlefield Review. I am confused, the map is November 15. I remember village and I think but not sure also St. Pierre Divion were captured November 13. Beaucourt also I think but again not sure.

What was direction of attack that day? I assume basically same as shown for 15th but realize I am not sure. Thanks, I bet you guys fight to get to answer one this easy! Come to think of it, the last two may have fallen the 18th

[Paul Reed]

From memory, Beaucourt and St Pierre Divion were both reached on the 13th. I don't have the issue of the magazine you refer to, so difficult to say whether it is correct or not.

The attack lines roughly followed the ground north and south of the Ancre river/Albert-Arras railway line. By the 18th, Beaumont Hamel, Beaucourt, St Pierre Divion were in our hands, with one of the eastern most points reached being the Bois d'Hollande. Grandcourt remained in German hands. To the north Frankfurt and Munich trenches were reached, but Serre remained untaken.

Hope that helps?

[Jim Gordon]

Paul

Beaumont Hamel definitely fell on the 13th. November, 1916 to the 51st (H) Division and I am also fairly sure Beaucourt fell to the 63rd.(Naval) Division on the same day. Not sure at all about St. Pierre Divion.

Regards

Jim Gordon

[dycer]

Don't know if this helps.

From 1/8 Royal Scots in European War.

"On the night 14/15th,a party went forward to consolidate "Munich Trench" which,on being reconnoitered,was found still in the hands of the enemy.It was decided,however,to dig a new trench,200 yards west of "Munich Trench" to cover the Divisional front.This proved to be a sound scheme,as it was used the following morning for a "jumping off" place for a further attack.Work at the same high pressure continued on the trench system and on the Beaument Road during the succeeding nights,and on the railway,which was taken into Beaumont Hamel on the night 17/18th."

[InkyBill]

Beaucourt fell on the 14th according to day by day account of the Somme by Chris McCarthy.

[paul guthrie]

Yes that helps, thanks guys, looks like fighting continued basically in the same direction 13 to 18th and Canadians coming from another direction but toward the Ancre took Desire Trench the 18th.

[paul guthrie]

The attack of the 18th I called Canadian was more than that. All divisions but 4th had been withdrawn and it attacked I think with British on each side. Official history described the weather as very bad, heavy snow. It was basically in westerly direction toward Grandcourt, Miramount and Pys as opposed to the south north attack earlier along the Ancre.

The other really big attack 87th Bn participated in here was October 21 when they took Regina Trench which I think was jump off point for November 18 attack on Desire and its support trench.

As you would expect many of these men are in Regina Trench and Adanac cemeteries. It is strange to me but Adanac is not war time with only one or so original burials, Terry will have this. Strictly from memory, more October 21 men are in Regina Trench and November 18 Adanac.

[Paul Reed]

As you say Paul, more October men in Regina Trench, than in ADANAC. The original burials in Regina were when the battlefield was cleared after the November action. Details of ADANAC at:

http://battlefields1418.50megs.com/adanac_cemetery.htm

The final attack was indeed 4th Division; the 38th Bn were heavily involved in the capture of Desire Trench. The British 18th (Eastern) Division was on the left flank in this action, I seem to remember.

Details of all this, as always, in my Courcelette book.

[paul guthrie]

The Courcelette book in the Battleground Europe series was the most helpful thing I had in researching the actions of 87th BN CEF in this area, after all it's your backyard!

[Paul Reed]

Finally seen this article, Paul; why does he spell Frankfurt Trench, 'Frankort', 'Frankfort' and then finally 'Frankfurt' - they even seem to have amended the OH map to make it 'Frankfort' - or am I wrong on the spelling (along with CWGC etc etc)?

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/cemetery_...=2000153&mode=1

[paul guthrie]

I have seen it both ways ans do not know what's right. While I'm at it is Dantzig an error? If so where did it start? Can't remember exactly where this is, near Loos maybe?

[Paul Reed]

Dantzig Alley was a German trench named by the British, which ran from Mametz towards Montauban. It was captured by elements of both 7th and 18th (Eastern) Divisions on 1st July 1916. There is a Dantzig Alley Cemetery there now:

http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/cemetery_...ry=61000&mode=1

[paul guthrie]

But should it have been Danzig? I have assumed that was error.