T8HANTS Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Is the Martini Henri action a true rifle ? I remember something from years ago that it was a Hybrid between a Musket & a rifle, more to do with the ammunition tho. The round its self. Yes the Martini-Henry is a true rifle, breach loading, single shot metallic cartridge. A rifled musket, (a term apparently coined by the Duke of wellington), is a muzzle loading musket with internal rifling. This was to differentiate between the short rifle like the Baker or Brunswick (as seen in Sharpe), used by British Napoleonic era RIFLE regiments, and the standard infantry long musket, which later gained the same internal rifling of the Rifles weapon. So to save the feelings of the Rifle regiments the Duke coined the phrase rifled musket for the Infantry, but a rifled musket the Martini-Henry ain't. The Snyder on the other hand who's first two marks were conversions, started off their lives as rifled muskets, but when they were converted to the Snyder breach loading system they became rifles. Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Dave, Before emergrating to the USA, I was a member of a WW.1 reenactment group. One of the chaps had a live fire Vickers. He said it was listed on his Fac as "Blank Firer Only". To me, Blank and live firers require a fully functioning firing pin and bold. Is there some loophole which allows this? Seph Not these days you couldn't. It sounds very dodgy to me, but he may have convinced his local constabulary that with an ex-film blank firing barrel fitted he could only use it for blanks. Not that you can change a Vickers barrel of course!. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Not these days you couldn't. It sounds very dodgy to me, but he may have convinced his local constabulary that with an ex-film blank firing barrel fitted he could only use it for blanks. Not that you can change a Vickers barrel of course!. Regards TonyE Thanks for that Tony.. I always wondered about the legalised issues of 'blank firers'. Seph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 As an American I feel sorry for you Brits regarding the firearms laws. Were I to move to Britain half of my collection would be illegal Dunblane was a fluke and I don't think the legal gun owners of Britain before then were a threat to public safety and I don't think they are now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gew98 Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Seph ; when you came to the states were you able to import your collection too ?. If so the 1914 SMLE can likely be made right and may yet talk again on the range. I have for example corrected a number of war bond gewehrs that had plugged muzzles and chambers - sure it was not easy work but it saved the rifles from a fate far worse...like being parted out or going to rust away. On a sidenote if you are looking to hook up with some enfield nuts I can put you onto some very good fellows stateside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Seph ; when you came to the states were you able to import your collection too ?. If so the 1914 SMLE can likely be made right and may yet talk again on the range. I have for example corrected a number of war bond gewehrs that had plugged muzzles and chambers - sure it was not easy work but it saved the rifles from a fate far worse...like being parted out or going to rust away. On a sidenote if you are looking to hook up with some enfield nuts I can put you onto some very good fellows stateside. Sadly, and more so unfortunatelly, at that time I did not know the criteria for importing live firers or deacts. My total collection of 12 WW.1 vintage weapons had to be disposed of before I left. Heartbroken?..... thats an understatement. I even had a near rare Lebel 1886. My SMLE 1914 deact is still with me though. There is no way that I was going to get rid of that. I'm trying to get one of the gunshops this side to import it for me, but the chap I need to see is always out somewhere searching for stock for his military weapons section. I'll catch him one of these days. The intension, once I get the SMLE here is to get it 'live firer'. Incidentally, it was deativated one week before I bought it.. I would prefer to describe the chaps you know as 'Enfield Enthusiasts'.. I'd appreciate any help in the process needed to acheive live firer status! Seph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 As an American I feel sorry for you Brits regarding the firearms laws. Were I to move to Britain half of my collection would be illegal Dunblane was a fluke and I don't think the legal gun owners of Britain before then were a threat to public safety and I don't think they are now. Pete, The UK has always been the same.... everyone is labelled as the same due to one moron. A gun club that I belonged to, and which produced many champion shootists, was ordered by the GOVERNMENT AUTHORITIES to shut down. 120 bolt action service rifles of various age, 70 hand guns, and 25 black powder muskets were certified to be disposed of in a three month period. If that did not happen, the individual weapon owners would be prosecuted under the Firearms Act. You really do not know how lucky you are living where you are. However, I do not wish to cause harm or offend any nationality, so lets just say that the subgect is CLOSED!. SEPH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Seph, While I do not share your views on gunlaws in the UK or the US, I do have a similar story. I came to the US leaving behind my one deactivated P14. For a good length of time I had neither the time or the money to even think about collecting anything (I was in grad school) then - when I did begin to think about it I walked into a local discount store ("Roses" I was in Georgia at the time) and bought a fully functional 1916 Lithgow SMLE no1 MkIII for $35.00! (this was in 1994) this was the start of a rather serious addiction....which family requirements have now curtailed although every so often I relapse... If I were you I would not worry about trying to import your no1 -it will ikely cost you more in fees than it is worth (sentimentality aside) and, for under $250 you can probably get a very good functional rifle...and at most outlets you will not pay a premium for an older rifle or a particular manufacturer unless they are classifying them as "collector" rifles which is not yet really common with Enfields. If you hunt through the Indian owned and FTR'd parts rifles you can often find "jewels in the rough" . I have also had quite a lot of fun (this will make the purists wince I suppose) buying "sporterized" (aka butchered) rifles and restoring them to their original military configurations. Almost all the parts are to be had relatively easily and although this will not be of historic significance or interest if you want to shoot it (assuming it was in good condition in the first place) it will be fine. As an example: below is my most recent relapse a 1918 BSA No1MkIII* with all matching numbers (bolt, reciever, barrel, underside of rear sight, nosepiece) it has a fine bright bore and sound (if a bit bashed around) furniture. Not really a beauty but this is "as found" - sling included (I have not had time to do anything to it) not even run a rag throught the bore or disassemble it, but for $100.00 I didn't think I could go wrong. (admittedly this was an exceptionally low price) Oh and in case you were wonderting....the P14 stayed with my mum in a cupboard somewhere - I visit it when I go home and I recently heard it made its stage debut in an amateur theatricals production of "Dad's Army" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Well Chris, You've certainly given me food for thought. I've noticed quite a few SMLE's reinforced for grenades for sale on various sites, and they have averaged only $75.00. My local sports equipment centre has a few No.4's and No.1s, with the latter selling for an average of $90.00. One of the No.1's is a Mk.3* dated 1916 with all numbers except the rear sight matching = $120.00... tempting, veeerrrrryyyyyy tempting! As for my England based No.1, i'll leave it where it is with my bro for the time being. But I'll make enquiries anyway as one never knows. If I manage to find another of the same stable, then all well and good, I'll reluctantly let it go then. My nephew would jump at the chance to have it. Sportised No.1's..... now there's an idea! Your 1918 SMLE (very nice weapon by the way!) has the rounded cocking peace.. very unusual for that year. Thanks Chris..... Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 11 January , 2007 Share Posted 11 January , 2007 Seph, You may be able to find Milsurp After Hours, (a military surplus firearms forum) of interest - It's an international forum with a section on 'Enfield an Classic British Rifles') ( http://milsurpafterhours.com ) As you are in the USA, the C&R licence may be the way to go. The Curio and Relic Firearms Forum ( http://p223.ezboard.com/bcurioandrelicfirearmsforum ) may be of use, this one is mainly US based but is full of people with a broad knowledge base, on C&R weapons, rebuilding and shooting the pieces. They may also be able to advise you of the legal steps for a C&R licence* (as opposed to a Federal Licence) - and what constitutes a C&R weapon (something to do with date of design rather than manufacture, I believe**). Regards Tom (the Walrus) p.s. "...Before emergrating to the USA, I was a member of a WW.1 reenactment group..." Out of interest, Which group? * I'm unsure of the legal position with firearms purchase in the US, but apparently a C&R licence helps. ** I've never followed the subject as I'm still UK based Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 21 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 21 January , 2007 So if I live in Northern Ireland and I'd love a live firer, what are my options? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 21 January , 2007 Share Posted 21 January , 2007 Some of the reeanactment guys seem to get away with Bren guns.! They will be deactivated. There is no way they would 'get away' with having a useable light machine gun ( I dare say someone will correct me down the line of only using it on single shots, if thats the case whats the point?) Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 21 January , 2007 Share Posted 21 January , 2007 If you want to buy a SMLE go to this site www.euroarm.net. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 22 January , 2007 Share Posted 22 January , 2007 "...So if I live in Northern Ireland and I'd love a live firer, what are my options?..." Peter, You will require "good reason" to own such a weapon - full membership of a suitable club (ie: a Home Office registerd Shooting club with access to a suitable range) is such a 'good reason'. You will also require an approved gun cabinet permanently fitted to a load bearing wall and home security to an appropriate standard (these last two inspected and approved by the local Police) and a Home Office issued Section 1 Fire Arm Certificate. This will allow you to hold a rifle and ammunition up to an agreed level. There may be local restrictions on storage of weapons and ammunition or of usage. Any help? Tom (the Walrus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 22 January , 2007 Share Posted 22 January , 2007 QUOTE(Dave6274 @ Jan 10 2007, 08:09 PM) Some of the reeanactment guys seem to get away with Bren guns.! They will be deactivated. There is no way they would 'get away' with having a useable light machine gun ( I dare say someone will correct me down the line of only using it on single shots, if thats the case whats the point?) Mick Mick, There are one or two Section 5 FAC holders (or 'agents for the holder'*) within some re-enactment groups and some other groups (or show organisers) hire Section 5 weapons (with the appropriate 'handler') from the likes of Bapty's. Then again, there are a number of automatic 'non-guns' (blank firers) out there as well. Tom (the Walrus) * Sometimes Section 5 holders, more usually employees of a Section 5 gunsmith, designated as 'agents' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 22 January , 2007 Share Posted 22 January , 2007 Buying deact's, firarms laws, etc - have a look at these previous topics for some more info. the law on deactivated weapons, the law on deactivated weapons I posted some detail points of the law here: Customs impounding relics? what price for ww1 rifle? How to buy a WW1 rifle, what are the costs and rules? IMPORTING, DE-ACTIVATED WWI OFFICERS REVOLVERS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 22 January , 2007 Share Posted 22 January , 2007 Mick, There are one or two Section 5 FAC holders (or 'agents for the holder'*) within some re-enactment groups and some other groups (or show organisers) hire Section 5 weapons (with the appropriate 'handler') from the likes of Bapty's. Then again, there are a number of automatic 'non-guns' (blank firers) out there as well. Tom (the Walrus) * Sometimes Section 5 holders, more usually employees of a Section 5 gunsmith, designated as 'agents' I know, but the inference was that they were not license holders. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
59165 Posted 22 January , 2007 Share Posted 22 January , 2007 Dunblane was a fluke and I don't think the legal gun owners of Britain before then were a threat to public safety and I don't think they are now. Dunblane was a fluke after the 1st fluke at Hungerford?Michael Ryan was licensed & legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walrus Posted 23 January , 2007 Share Posted 23 January , 2007 [qoute]"...Dunblane was a fluke after the 1st fluke at Hungerford?Michael Ryan was licensed & legal..." I think that you will find that not all of Ryan's weapons were licensed and therefore he was not "licensed & legal". I'm not going to go into any details over Hungerford or I'll end up having yet another post deleted and possibly another thread killed. (Phew, Rant about gun laws prevented!) Tom (the Walrus) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 23 January , 2007 Share Posted 23 January , 2007 I think the points you have made are valid, we have slightly gone off track of the original post but the issue of gun laws is connected, as is the feeling of UK citizens who would like a 'shooter'. Personally I expended enough rounds on ranges and hunting in my younger days ( I know you will argue and say 'no no, Mick you are still young') to get it out of my system....but for those who haven't fired a shot...beware. it is as addictive as this site. Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 31 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 31 January , 2007 Watched a wee bit film of a guy firing one...pretty impressive! Still want one and I definitely want to be able to fire it. Could someone summarise for me how to begin that process? http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...c=68397&hl= Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark.E Posted 4 February , 2007 Share Posted 4 February , 2007 Hello, I am new to this forum, actually, I joined just because of this topic. I have a very nice, SMLE No. 1 Mk. 3* which is in tip top shape, no scratches, or dings on the stock, the sights are amazing, and the bore looks brand new, but, all of this comes at a price, which for me, was around $340.00 US. I dont know how much that is in England, or Scottland (sorry, didnt quite see where you were from) but it is a beauty and it is my favorite gun from WW1. Well worth my money, and all serial numbers match except for the bolt. Its well worth however much your going to spend/have spent on it. Oh, and by any off chance does anyone know of a website that has No. 1 Mk. 3* scopes for sale thats will ship to the USA, and about how much they are? Thanks, Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 4 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2007 £172.00 Sounds like a good buy my friend. And welcome to the forum, you'll find out a lot more than you ever imagined. A most pleasant, helpful and friendly place. Peter, N. Ireland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark.E Posted 4 February , 2007 Share Posted 4 February , 2007 The scope was 172 pounds? If so, how much is that roughly US. Thanks Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 4 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 4 February , 2007 No sorry I meant that was how much your rifle would have cost in pounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now