peter__m Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 Ok guys. There's an opportunity for me to buy an old gun here. Found a wee dealer in my town. Seems like a good guy. He has a range of these from 1903 to 1918. They all look class to me. I don't know much about it but I assume the one in 1903 is one of the first new type issue? Also he has one with RIF (Royal Irish Fusiliers) on it and the marks (dial) for grenade attachment or something like that which have been later cut off. Anyway I haven't a clue. This is way out of my depth. Help me make a good decision. I just would love one for a wee collection in honour of my great grandfather. What do you guys think? What should I be looking for to make a decision between these? And how much would you think was a good price? I'll tell you later the price we're talking about later. Who knows maybe some of you will want one! Thanks, Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 heres a recent thread may help http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...179&hl=smle go for the least messed with Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 Peter Im no expert on the things but there are here so keep looking at the threads on SMLEs learn as much asyoucan from the experts, Pm them for advice and get to know what to look out for. You dont want a heavily refurbished item. I was lucky I got mine from a guy who was a daler but it was his and had decided to inactivate it as he didnt want to continue firing it. I was offered cheaper ones he had but I went for what I thought was the best one (didnt know a thing about it ). Cost me £185 in 2001 dont know the going rate now http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r260/we...oc/IMGP0226.jpg http://s146.photobucket.com/albums/r260/we...=IMGP0223-1.jpg good luck hunting,go for the best you can get! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vista52 Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 Peter, Just to give you an example of prices in the US. On Tuesday evening I went with my wife to buy shoes at a sporting goods store. As I walked passed the gun dept. I noticed some old looking rifles. I asked if any were Lee Enfields. Two were and they were priced at $175.00 and next week they would be on sale for $125.00. A box of ammo was $18.00 for 20. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 The "grenade sights" are in fact the long range volley sights that were calibrated to 2,800 yards. The dial would originally have had a pointer which acted as a fore sight in conjunction with a fold up rear sight attached to the sagety pivot. These were removed in later refurbishments. The 1903 SMLE would have been an early Mark I probably but there is every possibility it has been reworked to a Mark II (Mark III equivalent). Without seeing the markings it is impossible to tell. As stated in previous threads, look for matching numbers on bolt, action, rearsight underside, and nose cap. The one that is regimentally marked obviously is a bit more interesting. Price? How much is it worth to you is all that matters. I have seen some really horrible examples for £275+ and some really nice ones for £500 so take your choice. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borden Battery Posted 7 December , 2006 Share Posted 7 December , 2006 Here are two websites to consider. Borden Battery The Lee-Enfield Rifle This site was created to provide basic information on the many variations of the Lee-Enfield rifle, with particular emphasis placed on pictorial references. The site is ordganized under the following: Part One - General History, Part Two - Technical Information, Part Three - Rifle Pages, Part Four - Sub-Caliber Training Rifles, Part Five - Sporterized and Commercially Made Enfields, Bayonets, Links Page , Basic Enfield Identification and the Facts about Serial Numbers, Parker’s Rifle Shot’s Register. [Jay Currah Website][CEF Study Group - July 2006] http://enfieldrifles.profusehost.net/ Enfield Rifle Research The webmaster states the this comprehensive was created for collectors, shooters, and fans of the Enfield rifle, a rifle which in its various forms has seen duty for over 150 years as a main battle rifle, a home guard and constabulary weapon, a competition target rifle, and a game hunting rifle on five continents. There is much material and several links to other sites. A good website on the topic. [CEF Study Group - July 2006] http://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/~stratton/en-page.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 8 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 December , 2006 THanks guys...this is great... I have a lot of reading up to do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Own Posted 9 December , 2006 Share Posted 9 December , 2006 Hi Peter Are we talking deactivated rifles here or ones that you can shoot? Do you have an FAC? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 10 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 December , 2006 Hi Peter Are we talking deactivated rifles here or ones that you can shoot? Do you have an FAC? Steve Heh there Steve...i like that little badge you've got there...cool... Sorry...was away for the weekend... Emmm...yes it's deactivated. What is an FAC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 December , 2006 Share Posted 10 December , 2006 fire arms certificate depends where you live what the rules are.. or if you have rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 10 December , 2006 Share Posted 10 December , 2006 fire arms certificate depends where you live what the rules are.. or if you have rules Don't you mean laws Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 10 December , 2006 Share Posted 10 December , 2006 rules / laws - all the same , no idea why I put "rules" ?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 5 January , 2007 Share Posted 5 January , 2007 rules / laws - all the same , no idea why I put "rules" ?! Hello Peter, I know that prices for your Enfield SMLE have already been touched on, but that was before you mentioned that you were intending on purchasing a Deactivated example. The UK has really weird laws concerning fireams purchase, with the result that in most cases, a deact costs more that a live firer. Let me give you an example.... Before I emegrated to the USA, I held a Firearms Licence. On that licence I had 5 bolt action rifles, all WW.1 vintage. All five were variations of .303 Enfields. The year I left which incidentally was two years ago, I paid a last visit to the War And Peace Show, Beltring, Kent. I was searching for an Enfield SMLE No.1 Mk.3. It had to be made by Enield in 1914. As Beltring is a full weekend event, I stayed for the three days, camping in the grounds. There was a Willy's Jeep to one side of me, and a Bren Carrier to the other, but I di-gress. I was just getting ready to leave for home when I spotted a small stall that I had not visited. On walking inside, there in the hands of another customer was the very item that I had come to find. Waiting my turn, I listened to the chap discuss the rifle with the seller. He put it down after a short while and walked off. My heart skipped about ten beats Im sure as I looked this SMLE over. Here are its details... All original furnature (bruises and all), All matching numbers, Windage ajusted Rear Sight, Magazine Cut-off, Piling Swivel, Rounded Cocking Peace, Long Range Sight (complete), Made by Enfield, Year of manufacture = 1914. Price = 450.22 GBP. I also bought an SMLE (live firer) No.1 Mk3*, price 150.00 GBP. Now... you tell me where the sence is in paying nearly twice the price for a deac? But that is how things are in the UK. Over here in the USA, I've been able to buy SMLE's (live firer's) in near perfect condition for as little as 50.00 GBP. I di-gressed a little I know, but the main thing to consider before vyou make your choice is this.... No Firearms Licence is required for a Deactivated, but you must obtain the Birmingham Armoury Deac Cert with the weapon. If you have decided on buying a live firer, then you must first apply to the police for a Firearms Certificate first. You will not be able to purchase a live firer without it. One more point about the weapons value. If the serial numbers for the Bolt, Body and Barrel... all correspond, then the value will be higher than a missmatch. Also, the general condition of the weapon will have a similar effect on the overall price. One peace of advice!.... Before you decided on the weapon you want .... study the marks available first. Good Luck, and have fun..... but stay legal! Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 8 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2007 Aww Boots thats an absolutely super post. Thank you very much. That was very kind of you to give me that much detail. I have told myself to wait on a rifle until I learned a little more and now I find your post to greet me. The seller here at home was not offering much information about marks or anything and I know he knows because it is the main source of his shop profit. I would love to get a live firer not sure if they let you do that in Northern Ireland!? I think I'd love to be able to take it out somewhere and let fly... On a point of reason is it possible to buy one from the States and have it sent over? Do people do that? And how do I find out more about the marks? And where am I looking on the rifle for the matches? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 8 January , 2007 Share Posted 8 January , 2007 "And how do I find out more about the marks? And where am I looking on the rifle for the matches?" On the rear of the barrel where it joins the action (the Knox form), on the rear face of the bolt handle, usually on the underside of the backsight leaf and on the nosecap. The "master" number is the one on the barrel. As for the multiplicity of manufacturers and inspectors marks that you will find liberally spread all over your rifle, it takes a bit of experience to read them all. However, the essential ones are fairly straightforward and can be found here: http://home.earthlink.net/~smithkaia8/id3.html Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peter__m Posted 8 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 8 January , 2007 Thank you Tony. That's great advice and a good help. Do you have one then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 9 January , 2007 Share Posted 9 January , 2007 Thank you Tony. That's great advice and a good help. Do you have one then? I do not have an SMLE at present, although I have owned several over the years. I have shot pretty much everything I want to in the last forty odd years so I currently have no firearms on my FAC. I concentrate on the ammo colection and research and writing. However, I am weakening again and if I can find a good SMLE or P.14 I would be very tempted to get back into shooting vintage events with the HBSA. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave6274 Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 thi is quiet interesting about the rules & regs regarding a firearm. Is there a list of laws on the net for do's & don'ts . It would be interesting where the police stand if you asked for information if you wanted a Vickers m.g or a 18 pounder !. Some years ago I stood in for an American civil war crew which had a full size working cannon ! They got away with it by having a blackpowder liecence & the gun had been proofed. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Hi I am not to sure on firearm laws but i think Vickers is section 5 full auto mg (i think, so there a many sections), so you can't own one with out a sec 5 licence (not many of them about unless you make a living out of firearms) 18pdr seem unlikely unless its deactivated. I think its just rifles (bolt action) shotguns and .22 pistols. Garron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Garron is right. All semi and full automatic weapons are Section 5, as is armour piercing, incendiary and soft point rounds. One interesting loophole though. There is a list of Home Office approved calibres, ammunition for which is not considered to be commercially available and firearms for these are exempt from the requirements of a Firearms Certificate. Calibres include such things as 11mm Mauser etc and .577/450 Martini. Now, what happens if I have a fully functioning Maxim in .577/450 calibre. The calibre exempts it from the Act, or does it.... One other point that I continually warn people about. You constantly see inert rounds on ebay advertised as incendiary or AP. These are prohibited, as it is the projectiles that are Section 5 and prohibited, whether the cartridge is live or inert. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garron Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Its crazy, From what I have read I think you can own a Martini Henry with no paper work untill you wish to shoot it then you have to have a FAC and gun cabinate, and when you give up shooting you dont need the gun cabinte any more and can hang it back on your wall. Garron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Absolutely right. TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave6274 Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Its funny you should mention loop holes , you can take a Martini Carbine from the 1890's etc & re-bore it to take .410 shotgun carts! I have been told this was quiet common around the 20's. I must admit that having a peice of field artillary should be exempt, but would love to own a vickers deac or not !.( must be a family trait) Some of the reeanactment guys seem to get away with Bren guns.! Anyone asked for the certs over the 14 & 15" naval guns outside the Imperial war Museum. Hope my point is taken. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave6274 Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Is the Martini Henri action a true rifle ? I remember someting from years ago that it was a Hybrid between a Musket & a rifle, more to do with the ammunition tho. The round its self. Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
findabetterole Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Is the Martini Henri action a true rifle ? I remember someting from years ago that it was a Hybrid between a Musket & a rifle, more to do with the ammunition tho. The round its self. Dave. Dave, Before emergrating to the USA, I was a member of a WW.1 reenactment group. One of the chaps had a live fire Vickers. He said it was listed on his Fac as "Blank Firer Only". To me, Blank and live firers require a fully functioning firing pin and bold. Is there some loophole which allows this? Seph Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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