Manch. Regt 20316 AWO Cl. 1 Frank Rimmer

[sitush]

Despite going through the Long Long Trail tips + CWGC site, my friend (who has been given Mutt & Jeffs relating to the above soldier but is not related to the soldier) says he has been unable to find out anything further about the man.

Before I start digging around big time myself on my mate's behalf, can someone clarify where in the pecking order an Acting Warrant Officer Class 1 stood/stands? Am I likely to be able to find out much if I visit the Regt archives, which I believe are currently held at Tameside Library although they were elsewhere many years ago when I researched my own grandfather's service. I didn't have much luck with my grand-dad but then he was one of those who bobbed between Private & Corporal according to the weather & casualties etc, whereas an AWO might be worth the trip?

[themonsstar]

Hi

Can you give the names of the soldiers you are looking for 'eg' Name Rank Number, Cheers

[harribobs]

the archives are now held at the local studies section at Old Street but i'm not sure you'll find anything specific about frank rimmer there

for a rough list of the things they hold click here

Frank was an original 'pal' in 22nd Battalion, B coy, Platoon 7, so there is probably a 14/15 star out there of his as well, he seems to have survived the war

[sitush]

Thanks v much, Harribobs. Where did you get the info from so quickly? Is it via the link in your signature? I'd like to pursue it further and, hopefully, the medals will end up somewhere appropriate. Given to my mate by someone who had apparently bought a box of bits at a car boot or something.

themonsstar, I think I gave the info you ask for in the subject heading of my post (Manchester Regt, 20316 AWO Cl 1 Frnak Rimmer) . Am grateful for any further info from anyone - census/BMD records etc are something I'm quite handy with but military stuff is where I am less certain of myself.

Also, where does a Warrant Officer fit in the scheme of things military? Presumably it is above Sergeant as I would imagine that the warrant is from the monarch & therefore some sort of commissioned status.

[manchester regiment]

serjeant frank rimmer

military medal

london gazette 11-11-16

20316

he was the platoon serjeant [WO class 2] of VII platoon,B coy,22nd manchesters

became act WO class 1,[RSM]

then transferred to the training reserve as WO class 2,army number TR3/33199

born formby,lancashire

lived withington,manchester

theres photos of him on page 322 in the manchester city battalions book of honour,hes seated 7th from the left and on page 306 front row,3rd right

enlisted 1914 aged 33

bernard

[sitush]

This is excellent and I am very grateful, although I've still no idea how people are finding the info so quickly! Only one Frank Rimmer appears to have been born in Lancashire around the necessary time per www.freebmd.org.uk (although I know this is an incomplete transcription). Some time in Jul/Aug/Sep 1882, birth reg'd in West Derby, which is quite possible for a Formby lad. BMD 8b 439 will lead me to a birth certificate & from there possibly to 1891/1901 census records. 19 y.o. Frank A Rimmer is shown in 1901 census living in Withington and born in "Founby, Lancashire" (obvious typo). Of course, "Frank" in 1914 might be short for "Francis" or something at birth, which would make this a dead end.

I see that the Manchester Local & Family History Society do a CD version of the Book of Honour referred to by manchester regiment for £7.50 per CD (2 disks). Can't find a hard copy for sale so this is the likely to be the best way for me to get the photos.

I understand that the MM came in because too many - costly - DCMs being awarded, according to Frank Richards' Old Soldiers Never Die, although his may be a conspiracist's view. Also, from various sources, that MM awards did not usually include published citations, so the War Diary seems to be the likely route for more info on that. Means a trip to London, although the medal roll is local & I think also available via PRO on the web.

At age 33 in 1914 it seems unlikely the medal is going to find its way back to the family, even if they were to exist and be interested.

[manchester regiment]

theres a medal tracking service online,set up by the magazine medal news,for a small sum you can advertise worldwide for info on his other medals,the ad stays on till his medals are found,or you cancel it,its well worth a go,many people have been sucessful,i think the site is called medal tracker,bernard

ps regarding pictures,WATCH THIS SPACE,i think santa clause might be somewhere in middleton

[harribobs]

This is excellent and I am very grateful, although I've still no idea how people are finding the info so quickly!

all three of us run the Manchester Regiment group, we work with the museum and the regimental archives to help people look in to (usually) their relatives who have served with the regiment

Frank, 3rd right ( according to bernard! )

cheers

chris

edit wrong image removed

[sitush]

This just keeps getting better

I'm getting nowhere using the online London Gazette archive search for his MM (keeps crashing with a load of VBScript - something I can read sensibly but most people won't be able to). OTOH, Abebooks show various copies of the Roll for sale, starting at £110 or so. I've opted for a 9.99 CD of it from EBay, as this appears to incorporate the two CDs sold by MLFHS. Dire warnings about copyright!

Rimmer is listed as a pupil at St Bedes on the 1901 census, aged 19, which suggests he was boarding. A Frank Rimmer is shown as registered married Jan/Feb/Mar 1908 in West Derby & is the only likely candidate. It fits.

National Archives catalogue shows possibility of WO363 records, but I'd be a lot more confident of them being the right person, esp given the WW2 destruction, if he'd had a surname like mine: Tushingham.

I have a Manchester Regt portrait of my grand-dad somewhere if it is any use to anyone else. He was 12th Bn. signaller. Also have his demob certificate, cert of war employment and a few other bits (paper and metallic).

[harribobs]

I have a Manchester Regt portrait of my grand-dad somewhere if it is any use to anyone else. He was 12th Bn. signaller. Also have his demob certificate, cert of war employment and a few other bits (paper and metallic).

the MLFHS cds covering the 16-23rd battalion are fantastic, we now have one that covers the 24th as well

i would love to add your GFs portrait to our galleries

chris

[Stebie9173]

London Gazette link for MM if required:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Steve.

[harribobs]

London Gazette link for MM if required:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Steve.

thanks steve!

[John_Hartley]

Welcome to the Forum, sitush.

Assuming he he has the middle initial of "A", then a man called F A Rimmer is listed amongst the employees of J & N Philips & Co, 35 Church Street, Manchester. The company was a textile manufacturer and wholesaler and was one of the City's major employees.

(source: City Battalions Book of Honour)

John

[manchester regiment]

all three of us run the Manchester Regiment group, we work with the museum and the regimental archives to help people look in to (usually) their relatives who have served with the regiment

Frank, 3rd right ( according to bernard! )

cheers

chris

chris,sorry mate,i meant 3rd left in that picture,hes on page 322,in the seated row.7th left,bernard

[manchester regiment]

London Gazette link for MM if required:

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

Steve.

good old stebies come up trumps with his LG entry,johns got his work place,all we are short of,is his address,not a bad ten minutes work,well done everyone,bernard

[Stebie9173]

Less of the old....

Steve.

[harribobs]

chris,sorry mate,i meant 3rd left in that picture,hes on page 322,in the seated row.7th left,bernard

i was a little dubious

so we have :-

3rd left

and 7th left

ok??

[harribobs]

Welcome to the Forum, sitush.

Assuming he he has the middle initial of "A", then a man called F A Rimmer is listed amongst the employees of J & N Philips & Co, 35 Church Street, Manchester. The company was a textile manufacturer and wholesaler and was one of the City's major employees.

(source: City Battalions Book of Honour)

John

hi john ( long time no see)

there are a couple of F Rimmer's in the manchester corporation section as well

[sitush]

Frank A Rimmer is the 19 y.o. pupil at St Bedes in 1901 census & the only Frank Rimmer (without or without a middle name) listed in Withington at that date. And his birthplace is noted as Formby. I can put the relevant census image up here if someone wants it.

19 y.o. in 1901 = DoB around 1882, which matches with just the one Frank Rimmer listed in Lancashire as being registered born between 1880-1883, and whose birth conveniently is noted at West Derby (a big district that could easily extend up to Formby). No "A" mentioned in his birth registration but doubtless it will be on his actual certificate as this is quite commonly the case. I'll probably get a copy of his certificate. DoB of 1882 gives age on enlistment of 33, which is per what has already be posted here from another source.

There appear to be two marriages involving F Rimmers in Lancashire after 1900 (fair to assume that he did not marry while at school!) and before 1914. One married Ada Bone & the other Mary Earl (?) Smith, both in 1908. One of those was registered in West Derby. If I got the W Derby marriage certificate then I'd put money on that being Frank A Rimmer ... and it may just possibly give an address back in Withington or thereabouts.

If he was still at school aged 19 then that suggests that his family had some money to spare, so it is not impossible that he was a rate-payer somewhere by 1914.

All a bit hazy, I know, but it is a conjecture with some merit & probably worth me pursuing.

[manchester regiment]

coincidentally,there was a family called bone who lived in withington,mr+mrs william and sarah ellen bone,they lived at 92 hill st,withington,their son sydney bone died of pneumonia/flu on 11-2-1920,he was in the 22nd manchesters,No20278,bernard

[sitush]

coincidentally,there was a family called bone who lived in withington,mr+mrs william and sarah ellen bone,they lived at 92 hill st,withington,their son sydney bone died of pneumonia/flu on 11-2-1920,he was in the 22nd manchesters,No20278,bernard

Seems to show as Sidney, rather than Sydney, in the 1901 census, when he was 5 and the family was at 35 Moorfield St, Withington.

BUT I have cocked up: the putative wife is Ada BODY not Ada Bone. Blame it on my handwriting. Yes, it is that bad. Sorry.

I've almost always lived within a mile of the Philips Park in Whitefield which was owned by one of the founders of J & N Philips. The family name was taken by my school - Stand Grammar - as a house name, presumably in a minor cash for honours affair.

[John_Hartley]

hi john ( long time no see)

there are a couple of F Rimmer's in the manchester corporation section as well

Wotcha, mate. Keeping well?

I had 2 reasons for going for this chap. Firstly the middle initial. Second, I think the other two are in the book's appendix. I think that would make them joining too late to be in the piccy (unless anyone knows different ).

John

[manchester regiment]

john,frank,a rimmer is the one living in withington,pretty sure you have the right man,bernard

[harribobs]

I've almost always lived within a mile of the Philips Park in Whitefield which was owned by one of the founders of J & N Philips. The family name was taken by my school - Stand Grammar - as a house name, presumably in a minor cash for honours affair.

the roll of honour plaques for J & N Philips are still in existance on the walls of the church street car park (tib st)

Wotcha, mate. Keeping well?

pretty good all told, keeping busy as well

I had 2 reasons for going for this chap. Firstly the middle initial. Second, I think the other two are in the book's appendix. I think that would make them joining too late to be in the piccy (unless anyone knows different ph34r.gif ).

sounds good to me!