English to French

[Guest mruk]

I am researching a soldier who won the Croix de Guerre during 1917. His name is [Pte.] Josiah Kain [3/9064], 10th West Yorkshire Regiment [Prince of Wales's Own]. Can you help please?

"Je me rechercher un soldat qui gagner le Croix de Guerre pendant 1917. Il s'appelle Josiah Kain, 10ieme West Yorkshire Regiment [Prince of Wales's Own]. Pouvez-vouz aidez-moi, s'il vous plait?"

Would someone with a better grasp of French than myself be kind enough to tidy up the following request I'm making to the French authorities please?

Merci Beaucoup

Dave

PS: How do I address and sign the letter-E Mail I'm sending? Messrs et Mesdames?

[kaisersoffensive]

Je recherche un soldat qui a gagné Croix de Guerre pendant 1917. Son nom est [ Pte. ] Josiah Kain [ 3/9064 ], 10ème régiment de West Yorkshire [ prince de propres de Pays de Gales ]. Pouvez-vous aider svp ?

Some more learned fellow than I will no doubt point out the horrors of the above.

Bon chance!!

Bob

[healdav]

Mesdames, Messieurs,

Je fait des recherches au sujet d'un soldat qui s'appellait Josiah Kain du 10ème West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) qui a gagné la Croix de guerre en 1917. Je serais très reconnaissant si vous pourriez m'envoyer une copie de la citation ou me dire où je pourrais éventuellement le retrouver.

Veuillez accepter, Mesdames,Messieurs,

L'expression des mes sentiments distinguées

[Guest mruk]

Many thanks Bob and Healdav,

This is great stuff, and I much prefer the look and sound of the real language to my "'Allo Allo' Franglais".

Kind Regards,

Dave

PS: Another request please. How do I use accents on my keyboard?

[Martin Bennitt]

Not bad; but it's je fais, not je fait, et la retrouver, not le retrouver, because it's la citation. For the last sentence, I would prfer: je vous serais très obligé de bien vouloir m'en envoyer une copie etc.

for accents the easiest way is to press alt and three numbers on your right hand key pad: thus

ù (151), û (150), è (138), é (130), ô (147), etc.

bon courage. Martin B

[Guest mruk]

Thanks for your help, Martin.

I'm now going to give it a go.

Mesdames, Messieurs,

Je fais des recherche au sujet au soldat qui s'appellait Josiah Kain [3/9064] du 10ème West Yorkshire Regiment [Prince of Wales's Own] qui a gagné la Crois de Guerre en 1917. Je vous serais très obligé de bien vouloir m'en envoyer une copie etc.

Veuillez accepter, Mesdames, Messieurs,

L'expression des mes sentiments distiguées

Howzat? Très difficile!

Merci, toute le monde [?]

Dave

PS: It could be a cut and paste job

[SiegeGunner]

Mesdames, Messieurs,

Je fait des recherches au sujet d'un soldat qui s'appellait Josiah Kain du 10ème West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own) qui a gagné la Croix de guerre en 1917. Je serais très reconnaissant si vous pourriez m'envoyer une copie de la citation ou me dire où je pourrais éventuellement le retrouver.

Veuillez accepter, Mesdames,Messieurs,

L'expression des mes sentiments distinguées

Not bad; but it's je fais, not je fait, et la retrouver, not le retrouver, because it's la citation. For the last sentence, I would prfer: je vous serais très obligé de bien vouloir m'en envoyer une copie etc.

for accents the easiest way is to press alt and three numbers on your right hand key pad: thus

ù (151), û (150), è (138), é (130), ô (147), etc.

bon courage. Martin B

To pull the suggestions together, and add a couple of tweaks of my own, I would advise Dave to go for:

E-mail title: Attribution de la Croix de Guerre à un soldat britannique en 1917

Mesdames, Messieurs,

Je fais des recherches au sujet d'un soldat britannique qui s'appellait Josiah Kain, 10th West Yorkshire Regiment (Prince of Wales's Own), auquel la Croix de Guerre a été attribuée en 1917. Je vous serais très reconnaissant de bien vouloir m'envoyer une copie de la citation décernée à ce soldat ou de m'informer où je pourrais éventuellement la retrouver.

Veuillez agréer, Mesdames et Messieurs, l'expression des mes sentiments distingués

This form of words is based on my own correspondence with SHAT re the CdG I posted about on Dave's other thread.

The postal address of the archive at Pau is:

Bureau central d'archives administratives militaires

Caserne Bernadotte

F-64023 Pau CEDEX

Mick

PS Just cut and paste into your e-mail window. Don't forget to include your own postal address.

[Guest mruk]

Cheers Mick,

I'll go with this one. Thanks to everyone concerned.

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Martin Bennitt]

no probs: if you want a hand translating the sitation you know where to go.

cheers Martin B

[Guest mruk]

I'll bear this in mind, it will be much easier. My French dictionary is looking a bit tatty. My head is a bit frazzled as well

Many Thanks,

Dave

[chrrip]

Thanks for your help, Martin.

I'm now going to give it a go.

Mesdames, Messieurs,

Je fais des recherche au sujet au soldat qui s'appellait Josiah Kain [3/9064] du 10ème West Yorkshire Regiment [Prince of Wales's Own] qui a gagné la Crois de Guerre en 1917. Je vous serais très obligé de bien vouloir m'en envoyer une copie etc.

Veuillez accepter, Mesdames, Messieurs,

L'expression des mes sentiments distiguées

Howzat? Très difficile!

Merci, toute le monde [?]

Dave

PS: It could be a cut and paste job

récherches in the plural; suggest you qote the LG date since 2 million of these were issued!

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks, Gentlemen.

I've just sent the request by E-mail, and hopefully I should get some response if it reaches the right department. I'll also post a letter, but I don't think I can expect anything until well after Xmas. I also included the LG date, Chris.

Cheers

Dave

[Guest mruk]

Ladies and Gentlemen

I've had confirmation that the Ministere de Defence has received my E-mail, but I think the last part says something about a delay.

"il sera traité dans les plus brefs délais"

Is this standard?

Kind Regards,

Dave

[Martin Bennitt]

'Délai' is a 'faux ami' -- it does not mean delay. They mean they will handle it as soon as possible.

cheers Martin B

[Guest mruk]

Thanks Martin B,

I'll post any reply if and when it comes.

Cheers,

Dave

[barrieduncan]

Dave,

I liked your version best - it was a good, honest attempt at it, you should stick to that

I had to email an ebayer from France recently and my French is tres terrible I'm sure she had a good old chuckle at it, but she did thank me kindly for trying.

Best of luck with it, hope you get the info your after.

Barrie

[Martin Bennitt]

I had to email an ebayer from France recently and my French is tres terrible

'Terrible' is another 'false friend' -- it means 'terrific' in French, not terrible

cheers Martin B

[barrieduncan]

Well done Martin, you spotted my deliberate error!

[Guest mruk]

I'm beginning to think that I'm watching French films in the wrong context. I'm alright with 'Jules et Jim', but what about 'Les Enfants Terribles'. Is that another 'faux amis', or does it have some meaning in relation to the film? What is the opposite of a 'faux amis'--Cocteau's 'Les Enfants Terribles'?

Cheers,

Dave

[Guest mruk]

Messiuers et Mesdames,

I have received a reply from the Ministry of Defence [France], and it looks like I've sent my request to the wrong department. Can anyone confirm please?

Kind Regards,

Dave

Bonjour,

Pour les demandes d'ordre historique et généalogique nous vous invitons à

contacter le service historique de la défense.

A titre d'information sachez que le Service historique de la Défense (SHD)

est un service à compétence nationale rattaché à la direction de la mémoire,

du patrimoine et des archives (DMPA).

Il assure la collecte, la conservation, la gestion et la communication des

archives de la Défense, ainsi que la mise en valeur des fonds par des

publications, des colloques et des expositions. Il conduit également une

politique de collecte des fonds privés et de témoignages oraux, conserve de

précieux documents iconographiques ainsi que plusieurs millions d'ouvrages.

Le département Terre conserve plus particulièrement les archives de l'armée

de Terre, conduit des travaux de recherche et gère la symbolique militaire.

Service historique de la Défense

Département Terre

BP 166

00468 ARMEES

Tel : 01 41 93 20 95

[SiegeGunner]

Dave,

There's no real point in translating this standard reply, which simply points you back to the Service Historique de la Défense, Département Terre (ie. SHAT) at the Château de Vincennes. This is puzzling to say the least, as SHAT told me in 2001 that: 'it may be possible to trace the award of a French decoration to a foreign serviceman in the (incomplete) archive of citations held by the Bureau central d'archives administratives militaires, Caserne Bernadotte, F-64023 Pau Cedex'.

Two possibilities, I think — one, that the e-mail address is not right for the Pau archive, or two, that they have changed the system since 2001 and the archive now expects all enquiries to come via SHAT. There have been two significant developments since 2001: an upsurge in interest in family history in France, and the abolition of compulsory military service, which deprived SHAT of its supply of cheap labour in the form of history students/graduates assigned to serve there. In their place, I would have hired more staff and started charging for information and services — and I would guess that's what they've done.

Unless one of our French or French-based pals can tell us what the current situation is, the answer may be to go onto one of the French WW1 forums and ask there.

Mick

[Guest mruk]

Thanks Mick,

Great advice, and I will write to both departments at the beginning of the New Year. Things are a bit tight at the moment, but is it possible to visit the archive and search the documents in person? I'm hoping to visit France sometime in the Spring.

Cheers,

Dave

[SiegeGunner]

Dave,

I've just been searching French websites, including that of the Service Historique de la Défense, and there's no doubt that the archive at Pau is the right place to send enquiries regarding medals and citations. If you e-mailed your enquiry to the address given to you on your other thread, in exactly the form it was given, I think it's possible that the reply you have received comes from a department that sweeps up misdirected e-mail sent to any address in the form @dsn.sga.defense.gouv.fr

There is a letter missing from the address you were given, and that has probably been enough to send your enquiry off to the 'dead letter box'.

The correct e-mail address for the Bureau central d'archives administratives militaires at the Caserne Bernadotte in Pau is: bcaam-pau@dsn.sgn.defense.gouv.fr You were given 'bcam' instead of 'bcaam'.

I'll send them an e-mail asking for confirmation that they're the right people to ask about the CdeG. PM your e-mail address and I'll keep you informed.

Mick

[Guest mruk]

Many Thanks, Mick.

Much Appreciated,

Dave

[chrrip]

Dave,

I've just been searching French webites, including that of the Service Historique de la Défense, and there's no doubt that the archive at Pau is the right place to send enquiries regarding medals and citations. If you e-mailed your enquiry to the address given to you on your other thread, in exactly the form it was given, I think it's possible that the reply you have received comes from a department that sweeps up misdirected e-mail sent to any address in the form @dsn.sga.defense.gouv.fr

There is a letter missing from the address you were given, and that has probably been enough to send your enquiry off to the 'dead letter box'.

The correct e-mail address for the Bureau d'archives administratives militaires at the Caserne Bernadotte in Pau is: bcaam-pau@dsn.sgn.defense.gouv.fr You were given 'bcam' instead of 'bcaam'.

I'll send them an e-mail asking for confirmation that they're the right people to ask about the CdeG. PM your e-mail address and I'll keep you informed.

Mick

Mick; can you keep us all informed pleased; I supplied the original email address as given to me by the Secretay of our Department's Vets organisation; I checked it just now and exactly as I posted so will like to know if it is wrong Chris