Who were the first

[Guest]

Yes, I am sure that is correct. The Frontiersmen had some friends in high places who could influence matters and cleverly used the press to prepare the ground. We would say today that they had good 'PR'. It suited the press to print the byline that a bunch of civilian amateurs could mobilise to a seat of war more quickly and efficiently than the government of the day's armed forces.

Technically mercenaries then?

[FROGSMILE]

Technically mercenaries then?

Technically, yes, until such time as they created formed bodies accepted by and under the auspices of, the British Army.

[Guest]

Technically, yes, until such time as they created formed bodies accepted by and under the auspices of, the British Army.

I thought non-mercenaries were recognised by some international charter (Geneva Convention started in 1860s if memory serves): French Foreign Legion, Spanish Foreign Legion, Gurkhas, Egyptian Levies etc... all in their day not being classified as mercenaries but recognised internationally (rather than by the WO) as uniformed bodies of men in the legal employ of a foreign nation. I may be off-piste here with regard to the Great War, but the (international) legal status of FFL and Gurkhas etc was drilled into me in previous lives as most definitely not being mercenaries.

In WWII I believe the Charlemagne Div was full of Frenchmen (often whitewashed in history) in the employ of the Germans, and 100,00 Dutchmen fought with the same bunch (ditto). I am interested in expatriate formations in the Great War. MG

[FROGSMILE]

I thought non-mercenaries were recognised by some international charter (Geneva Convention started in 1860s if memory serves): French Foreign Legion, Spanish Foreign Legion, Gurkhas, Egyptian Levies etc... all in their day not being classified as mercenaries but recognised internationally (rather than by the WO) as uniformed bodies of men in the legal employ of a foreign nation. I may be off-piste here with regard to the Great War, but the (international) legal status of FFL and Gurkhas etc was drilled into me in previous lives as most definitely not being mercenaries.

In WWII I believe the Charlemagne Div was full of Frenchmen (often whitewashed in history) in the employ of the Germans, and 100,00 Dutchmen fought with the same bunch (ditto). I am interested in expatriate formations in the Great War. MG

I agree with your comments RE Gurkhas, et al, who were under the British crown and Army. I do not think that applied to the Frontiersmen in 1914, but am willing to be convinced if someone can show different.

[ss002d6252]

Presumably the Frontiersmen were not part of the Army and were considered civilians. In the same way that the UVF was an armed civilian body not recognised by the War Office in Aug 1914.

The 25th Bn Royal Fusiliers was not formed until Feb 1915, so prior to this date I assume they were civilians (albeit armed to the teeth) in the eyes of the law.

MG

They were recognised by the war office as body in August 1914 but the actual status of them seems to be debatable.

Craig

[Guest]

They were recognised by the war office as body in August 1914 but the actual status of them seems to be debatable.

Capture.JPG

Craig

That is the Legion's view. Not the War Office. ; no recognition in the Army List etc.

[Muerrisch]

I have never researched the matter properly but I believe Lt Spears was in France on Embassy duty well before the war, so 5th Aug would be a notional date for his medal.

[Guest]

I have never researched the matter properly but I believe Lt Spears was in France on Embassy duty well before the war, so 5th Aug would be a notional date for his medal.

According to "Liaison 1914" he left England on 27th and arrived in Paris on 28th. He was in Paris when war was declared. - so the MIC is, as you say, a notional date. MG