jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Although I have been researching family history for some while I have only in the last few days discovered a distant relative who was killed in WW1. I have his details from CWGChttp://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=234675 I have not downloaded his medal card from the National Archives yet, but I will do. I know very little about him other than he appears to my eyes to be quite old at 34 to have enlisted. He was born in 1882 somewhere on the Lincolnshire/Rutland boarders. I suspect he was married but the CWGC site doesn't confirm this. I hope someone can help me and I hope I have given enough information. Apologies if I have not done this post correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 welcome to the forum you need some one to check soldiers died CD and de Ruvignys roll of honour if no one replies I will check when i get home later Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hambo Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Welcome! He is listed on SDGW as killed in action. They do have him as dying 24.8.18 but I double checked on CWGC and it is 1916 there. As you probably know he was 2nd Battalion and is listed as born in Castington in Lancashire and as enlisting at Edlington All the best Hambo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Here's his Soldiers Died info Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Here's his Soldiers Died info Glyn Thanks for your replies. I had come across the different dates of death. I had seen 1918 quoted and when I couldn't find him on CWGC in 1918 I searched all the years and found 1916. In a case like this do I take the CWGC as being correct? Will his medal card show his date of death? or do you experts know from where he was buried which year is correct? It is him, the village he was born in varies on Census reurns but we are in the right area and he is on Warmsworth War Memorial, the next village to Edlington. Let me tell you nothing and I mean nothing about this family is straight forward, his mother disappeared into thin air, so it didn't surprise me to find dates don't tie up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 My opinion is as yours and the date on CWGC is more likely the correct one. Far too many errors on SDGW. As far as his MIC showing date of death.... well some do, some don't, some just say KIA or DOW...pot luck I'm afraid to say. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 .............As you probably know he was 2nd Battalion............... CWGC state 9th Bn. so something is not quite right. CROSS Initials: F M Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: King's Own Yorkshire Light Infantry Unit Text: 9th Bn. Date of Death: 24/08/1916 Service No: 47474 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: VIII. K. 6. Cemetery: REGINA TRENCH CEMETERY, GRANDCOURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Thanks for that Glyn, I will download it when I get a few minutes quiet, my brain needs quiet to do something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2006 I have downloaded his medal card, but in my eyes it doesn't give me much more information. It just says Frederick M Cross K.O.Y.L.I. Pte 47474 Victory medal roll 0/2/103 B 20 page 2452 British medal ditto. I don't know whether anyone can glean anything from that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 If he was with the 9th I would go for 24-8-1918 as the 9th were in the Arras area in 1916 whereas in 1918 they were in action the Grandcourt area which is where he is buried. But was he with the 2nd ? Interesting this CWGC v SDGW, which is right or maybe they are both half right. Sorry to add confusion here. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2006 Glyn believe you me I am confused enough already with this lot, just one question are there death records online for WW1 soldiers? if so that would solve the date problem. I got the 1918 date from information put on a website by a family member but and a big but I have proved much of the other information they put on was incorrect and badly researched, so I just at the moment know which date to go for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 2 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 December , 2006 I am even more confused now. I have found his death on Find My Past, but it has thrown another difference up HELP. The death is recorded as Cross Frederick M, Y.L.I. Pte number 33281 year 1918 ref. vol. 1.41 page 214. Does this different number mean anything to anyone? Does it explain the different battallions? It makes me even more confused (not difficult) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 3 December , 2006 Share Posted 3 December , 2006 Now your confusing me , are you sure about the different number ? A quick check on SDGW gives us the following On 24-8-16 KIAs in 2nd Bn = 0 On 24-8-16 KIAs in 9th Bn = 0 On 24-8-18 KIAs in 2nd Bn = 1 (Frederick Cross) On 24-8-18 KIAs in 9th Bn = 15 Normally I tend to side with CWGC results BUT on this occasion I would say that your man was killed on the 24-8-18 but with the 9th Bn, but this is only my opinion and probably totally wrong Might be worth posting in Units and Formations and ask for actions off 2nd Bn on 24-8-18, should tell you where they were and possibly how many ORs were killed. If we can confirm he was with the 9th I have the war diary and will post some scans. Glyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 3 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 3 December , 2006 Glyn thanks, I know last night when everything I found was throwing up different answers I was totally confused ( that's quiet easily achieved) As I said I don't understand any of this and finding all the different answers well I just didn't know what to do. When I found the death record on Find My Past and that said 1918 I thought I'm home and dry, but then the number being different well it just lost me again. I will get to the bottom of this one way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NedRutland Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 You said "He was born in 1882 somewhere on the Lincolnshire/Rutland boarders." In which case the birthplace shown on his SDGW entry as Castington, Lincs is probably an error for Casterton. The two parishes of Great and Little Casterton are in Rutland but adjacent to the Lincolnshire county boundary and just outside Stamford. Can you find your man on the 1901 Census? I have looked for that surname born in either Rutland or Lincs without finding any strong matches for your man (several George Crosses though ) "Ned" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 The simplest way to clear this up is to get someone to do a look up of the relevant medal roll entrys, and order his death certificate. The first will likely give his Bn and the second will give you a date of death. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 19 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2007 The simplest way to clear this up is to get someone to do a look up of the relevant medal roll entrys, and order his death certificate. The first will likely give his Bn and the second will give you a date of death. Andy Max I have ordered his death cerificate and it has come and as you will know you don't get much information it does clearly say date of death 24/8/1918 in France. I have E Mailed CWGC to query their date of death but apart from an acknowledgement I have heard nothing from them. He was living in South Yorkshire in 1901, I have him on the census. Quite by chance I have been contacted by a decendant of his half brother. Now the family think he died in 1916, but I haven't pushed this with them, we really need some regimental information if at all possible to nail this once and for all. Thanks to all of you you have taken in this it's a puzzle I would like to solve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linge Posted 19 January , 2007 Share Posted 19 January , 2007 Adding to the confusion The overseas Death Indexes have this Cross, Frederick M, Pte, 33281, YLI, 1918. I.41 214 The only Frederick M Cross but as you see with a different number. It gets worse checking on SDGW and CWGC 33281, KOYLI is as follows Pte Harold Dixon, 9th Battalion kia 24th August 1918 commemorated on Vis en Artois Memorial Per overseas deaths Harold Dixon KOYLI above is recorded as number 62696 Per SDGW and CWGC 62696 KOYLI is Private Robert Dryden 9th Battalion kia 24th April 1918 and buried in Regina Trench Cemetery. Grandcourt Grave VII.A.8 I can't find said Robert Dryden on overseas deaths Obviously some confusion but two things that seems to be constant are 9th KOYLI and date of death 24th August 1918!!! Pam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaywit Posted 19 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 January , 2007 The death certificate I have says the following. Number 47479, Rank Pte 9th, Name CROSS Fredk Martin, Age 35, Country of Birth England, Date of Death 24/8/1918, Place of Death France, Cause of Death Killed in Action. Headed at the top The Kings Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in the war of 1914 to 1921. Don't worry nothing about this family is straightforward as a number of us who are researching it know to our cost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owilki1984 Posted 16 March , 2007 Share Posted 16 March , 2007 Hi, Just to confuse, or mayby help clarify, a little more I have found you guy listed in the Roll of Honour, that is included in David Clayton, From Pontefract to Picardy. The 9th King’s Own Yorkshire Light Infantry in the First World War, (Tempus, 2004). It has the following information 24.8.18 CROSS F.M. Pte 47474 kia Regina Trench Cem. VIII K 6 This info would thus confirm him as in the 9th KOYLI. It also also confirms his date of death as 24th August 1918. The number also matches the info you have from his medal card. Hope this helps you see through the fog a little. Regards Oli Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koyli_1915 Posted 19 April , 2009 Share Posted 19 April , 2009 Thanks for your replies. I had come across the different dates of death. I had seen 1918 quoted and when I couldn't find him on CWGC in 1918 I searched all the years and found 1916. In a case like this do I take the CWGC as being correct? Will his medal card show his date of death? or do you experts know from where he was buried which year is correct? It is him, the village he was born in varies on Census reurns but we are in the right area and he is on Warmsworth War Memorial, the next village to Edlington. Let me tell you nothing and I mean nothing about this family is straight forward, his mother disappeared into thin air, so it didn't surprise me to find dates don't tie up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koyli_1915 Posted 19 April , 2009 Share Posted 19 April , 2009 Just to let you know that Private Frederick Martin Cross (47479) is on the cenotaph at Edlington, I know this because I live in Edlington and I am researching the names on our cenotaph. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9KOYLI Posted 18 November , 2012 Share Posted 18 November , 2012 With regard to Private Cross... I wrote the history of the 9th KOYLI (From Pontefract to Picardy) and have a copy of the 9th KOYLI War Diary - In June 1918, the battalion was about to be reduced to cadre and a complete list of personnel was drawn up, listing the units they were to go to. Private F M Cross, 47474, is on the list. This seems to confirm that he was not killed in 1916, but in 1918. The 47479 version of his number could be a transcription error. I have no idea when he joined the 9th KOYLI, so it is possible that he had a different number and was in the 2nd KOYLI earlier. The SDGW records are all over the place and the CWGC record has the wrong year of death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellis1918 Posted 19 November , 2012 Share Posted 19 November , 2012 9 KOYLI - My great uncle Harry Ellis , I believe was in the 9th KOYLI , number 37516 and is listed as MIA on the Rotherham absent voters list for 1918 . Is he mentioned in your list of personnel in June 1918 ? ps read your book on holiday last year An excellent piece of work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 9KOYLI Posted 21 November , 2012 Share Posted 21 November , 2012 Sorry, I've checked the list, and although there are a lot of men whose numbers begin '37....', Harry Ellis is not amongst them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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