Stebie9173 Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Good news and bad news! Good : I've found the missing two of my great-grandads medals! Bad : They're in a museum and they obviously want to keep them.... I have his Victory Medal, but his 1914-15 Star and British War Medal were missing. Whilst visiting the local museum in search of a lost War Memorial they commented that they had two medals in the family name. Visiting this lunchtime, they turned out to be his missing medals. Of course, being a museum they won't part with them. Needless to say we'd love them back in the family, but .... Anyone else had the same problem? Now where did I put that cat burglar suit... Steve. P.S. Whilst visiting I found that the local WW1 Historian had just published the book I was going to write..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Point out you are a relation and ask them if they would release them to reunite the group for a reasonable donation - my assumption is that they will not be short of examples of a 14/15 Star and BWM. You might want to point out that whilst you understand the museum is a good place for them that they would still be more appreciated back in the ownership of the family. If they decline, mention that your a journalist with the local newspaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, I would imagine the genealogical value to you is worth much more than their monetary value, therefore why not purchase any equivalent medals and offer them to the museum as a straight replacement. At least they were never melted down! Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devils Own Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 It is possible that you may have a legal right to claim them. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnr.ktrha Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Hello, You could also try and find out if there is anything that the museum is looking for, not just military items. Then see if they would be willing to exchange. On the other had, if you have medals to a local man which you have researched in depth, they may consider swapping them, as a research group would be of more interest to them for displaying. If I were you I would take your quest to the highest leavel. Do you know how the medals came to be in the museum? Don't give up hope. Regards, Stewart If all else fails, buy some copy medals and have his details put on them, then ask to see the originals and swap them over Only joking , or am I? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2006 What I can't figure is how they got there... Great-grandad had 3 sons - one died in WW1, one died in 1931 after moving to Retford, and the third was my grandfather who died in 1952. My dad took over Grandad's house after my grandmother died in the early 1960s, and GGDs Victory Medal was one of the only two bits of WW1 history that were inherited. We (me being a couple of months old) left that house in 1968 and it was bulldozed soon after to dual the local main road. We were the only branch of the immediate family that stayed in Peterborough, yet the medals were gifted to the Musuem in 1988. They have no record of who donated them. My dad and two uncles certainly did not donate the medals, and none of the Retford branch have been back to Peterborough for more than "five minutes" since. Rather, odd.... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Thanks for the suggestion, Stewart. There's a security camera in the "viewing room" .... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonathan Saunders Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 In thatcase tell them your old aunt has confirmed these medals were stolen in a house burglary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, Mabe not a popular idea, but what about giving/lending the Victory medal to the musem to add to the others? Get a picture of them all for your records and make a note that the originals are held by the museum. At least it may go towards ensuring the medals' safe keeping? You could also put the museum to proof over ownership, since they are unable to show who passed them on in the first place. Maybe you could get an agreement as to ownership in return to some form of permament loan to the museum. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Ian, That thought (the loaning of our medal) had crossed my mind, too. I think my dad will probably want to have a visit and we will at least reunite the medals for a brief few minutes. Of course, the easiest way to get them would be to take my mum. She would have the entire musuem donated to us before we went home. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 therefore why not purchase any equivalent medals and offer them to the museum as a straight replacement. This sounds like a good idea to suggest to them - and chuck in an offer to research the name (making sure you've sussed out a name that you're likely to get a result on) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 The Museum should have an 'Accessions Book', kept by the Curator and overseen by the Trustees. If enquiries and requests to the Curator do not produce a good result, write to the Trustees, letter headed 'Without Prejudice'. Provided you are next of kin [or equal next], it may be that the Museum might need to prove provenance throughout the chain of purchase/ donation. And good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, Congratulations and commiserations at the same time mate. It's great you know where they are, pity they are still there and not at home with the victory medal. I sympathise 100% that the medals are worth more to you than the museum, sentimentally at least, but I can also see where the museum is coming from. Having accessioned the medals in the first place, the museum has an ethical and moral (not to mention legal) obligation to care for the objects and hold them in trust for society. The original donor who handed the medals in, could turn up at the museum at any time with their copy of the entry papers and demand to see the medals - which the museum would be legally obliged to do. I don't think you would have a legal right to the medals unless you could provide proof that the medals were ever in your ownership, or that they should have been yours (i.e. a will), and that they had been donated without your permission. I'm not trying to rain on your parade here, nor am I trying to suggest the medals shouldn't be in your hands, I'm just trying to put things forward form a museums point of view. At least you know where they are mate, and where they will be for the forseeable future. Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Provided you are next of kin [or equal next], it may be that the Museum might need to prove provenance throughout the chain of purchase/ donation. And good luck. I agree with Grumps and Barrie These medals may well have been purchased from a legitimate source years ago and then loaned or donated to the museum. In either case, being the direct next of kin unfortunately gives you no more rights to the medals than me or the next man. Try to winkle out of the museum who donated the medals in the first place, contact them and see if you all can come to some sort of agreement. Failing that, Ian Ts idea seems to me to be the best way forward. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 1 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Thanks everyone for the suggestions. Have to give this one some thought. Hopefully by the time I revisit them they will know where they came from. One thing is sure. They were donated rather than loaned, so they are the Museums property and I do not want to do this the wrong way. If they must remain there then so be it... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, Good luck in your deliberations. It is being able to hold them in your hand whenever you feel like it versus the medals remaining split, vesus reuniting the set and knowing they are at least safe, and where they are. Not knowing anything of your family set-up I can only say that I would at least feel proud that my relative's medals were in a museum and that if in the future my descendants cared less over their fate than I do, then they are in safer hands at the museum. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barrieduncan Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 I don't think the museum are supposed to divulge any information about donors as this is against the Data Protection Act - they may however (assuming they can find the information) contact the donor on your behalf, passing on your contact details to them. This wouldn't really make any difference though, if the medals were gifted/donated, then they now belong to the museum - the original donor can't just walk in and ask for them back at a later date. If they were on loan however, then it may be a different story. The museum really should have more information on where they came from. In the 1980s its safe to assume they were working from an accession register and entry form system - it may be that they are now working with a computer system and have left the previous paper entries as a backlog. This would mean that someone will have to trawl through 18 years of accession registers to find it; hence why they couldn't tell you straight away when you were there last. Do keep us updated on how things progress. Best of luck, Barrie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 At least you know they exist museums occassionally sell things off so always a chance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
birkettm Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Yes please keep us updated.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarvis Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 I don't think the museum are supposed to divulge any information about donors as this is against the Data Protection Act - they may however (assuming they can find the information) contact the donor on your behalf, passing on your contact details to them. Barrie I obtained this reference from the DLI Medal List (on-line) so not sure where the Data Protection act starts or stops.Obviously there was'nt one when these particular examples where donated. Harry Crawford Watson Born in 1864, of a famous Barnard Castle family, he joined the 2nd Durham Rifle Volunteers as a Lieutenant in 1883. He served with this Volunteer unit and its successor the 6th Battalion DLI until 1921, rising to the rank of Colonel. In April 1915, he commanded 6 DLI at the 2nd Battle of Ypres, before being invalided home. He then commanded 3/6 DLI and other units for the remainder of the Great War, before finally retiring in 1921. Harry Watson was awarded both the Volunteer Decoration and the Territorial Decoration - one of only 93 officers to receive both. He died in 1934, aged 70. His son, William Innes Watson, commanded the 6th Battalion DLI during the Second World War. His medals are also on display in the Medal Room. 1914-15 Star Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. DURH.L.I. Impressed Capitals. British War Medal (1914-20) Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. Impressed Capitals. Victory Medal (1914-18) Bar(s): MID (1914-19). Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. Impressed Capitals. Diamond Jubilee Medal (1897) Monarch: Queen Victoria Type: Silver Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. (UNNAMED) Unnamed. Volunteer Officer's Decoration Monarch: King Edward VII Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. (UNNAMED) Unnamed Territorial Decoration Donor: WATSON. COLONEL W I Naming: LT.COL. H.C. WATSON. (UNNAMED) Unnamed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ypres1418 Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Stebie, I hope that you soon get to reunite the medals, they should be together. Good luck. Mandy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Samson Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 museums occassionally sell things off so always a chance How frustrating, Steve! There have been previous threads on the forum describing how strapped-for-cash regimental museums have either chosen or been forced to sell donated items to raise funds, much to the anguish of relatives who thought they had found somewhere for grandad's medals to remain on display 'in perpetuity'. It might be a good idea to express a formal interest in the medals should the museum ever consider parting with them. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony Bagshaw Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, How lucky and unlucky. One of my relatives medals are in the Regimental Museum in Northampton, would love them but it was his daughter that donated them back in 1982, if only she had waited 22 years!!! Anyway, good luck mate, keep us updated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Robertson Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve, I would do nearly anything to get my Great-grandfathers medals back. Have a word with the museum and if I have a medal trio to the same Regiment, I'll gladly swap them on your behalf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 1 December , 2006 Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Steve its a dark , rainy night in the 'boro - meet you in town 10 mins with a crow bar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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