Eight Company structure? I'm still stuck...

[ddycher]

Bringing back up a fascinating thread.

 

I am jumping on Ron’s thinking that Reserve Bn’s in the TF may have been numbered I ~ P when formed in September / October 1914. I have seperation of IS and HS apparently still under the original CO prior to the departure of the IS Bn. So my conjecture is / was that they were seperated into I ~ P and then renamed A ~ H when the Reserve Bn formalized.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Dave

[Guest]

6 hours ago, ddycher said:

Bringing back up a fascinating thread.

 

I am jumping on Ron’s thinking that Reserve Bn’s in the TF may have been numbered I ~ P when formed in September / October 1914. I have seperation of IS and HS apparently still under the original CO prior to the departure of the IS Bn. So my conjecture is / was that they were seperated into I ~ P and then renamed A ~ H when the Reserve Bn formalized.

 

Any thoughts ?

 

Dave

 

Spot-checking a dozen or so war diaries of second line TF battalions shows the consistent adoption of A,B,C, D Companies by the time they deployed overseas. Some (but not all) of their diaries start at formation. Clearly a wider sampling might dig up some more anomalies as highlighted earlier. We can be confident that there was no broad-based instruction to label the second line companies I, J, K...N,O,P as one would see this in the early diary entries. 

 

In the published histories it seems largely the same. For example the 2nd Bn London Regiment records the formation of the 2/2nd Bn in detail. They formed with A, B, C, D, E, F G and H Companies at the start changing to A, B, C and D Companies on 23rd Jan 1915.  It is laid out in considerable detail.

 

I suspect, rather like the regulars, the TF largely toed the line and stuck with FSR instructions A, B, C, D .... inevitably there will always be exceptions but my sense is that these will be few and far between.. 

 

Edited 28 January , 2018 by Guest

[Guest]

Just out of curiosity I checked Geoff's Engine. Not sure if these are just the odd example but interesting array of Company designations, for what it's worth?

 

"F" Coy Sherwood Foresters 20/9/1917

 

"N"Coy RAMC 18/4/1917  

 

"O" Coy 25/3/1917 KOSB

 

X Coy

 

No 5 Coy

 

etc etc etc

 

Mike

Edited 28 January , 2018 by Skipman

[Ron Clifton]

RAMC is not of course infantry, but as far as I know, the only RAMC units with lettered titles were A, B and C at the depot.

 

RE Special Companies were lettered (cylinder) or numbered (mortar) but only as far as Q and 4.

 

I haven't trawled back through the thread, so I have probably mentioned this before, but there appear to have been battalions with W, X, Y and Z Companies, and it's also possible that some 2nd battalions used E, F, G and H.

 

For what it's worth, the "tradition" companies of the Foot Guards, which keep up the traditions and Colours of the regiments' second battalions, are currently:

Nijmegen Company Grenadier Guards

7 Company Coldstream Guards

F Company Scots Guards

 

Ron

[Muerrisch]

also P, Q, R, S if I remember correctly. There is an old thread on here somewhere.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Muerrisch said:

also P, Q, R, S if I remember correctly. There is an old thread on here somewhere.

 

Pre war P,Q,R,S was once used by 2nd Bn OBLI when the 4 company structure was originally introduced but later abandoned in preference for A,B,C,D and by at least one New Army Battalion - the 11th Bn Manchester Regt at Gallipoli  - in 1915.

 

Here is the survey of the BEF 1914 posted again...

 

A survey of the BEF's first 8 Divisions plus 19th Inf Bde plus 29th Div: a total of 111 Regular Infantry Battalions and 1 TF Bn

94 Battalions used A B C D

7 Battalions used 1 2 3 4 all Foot Guards and, curiously 1st Bn Gordon Highlanders and 1st Bn KOSB (later changed to A B C D)

6 Battalions used W X Y Z

1 Battalion used RF B C LF 1st Bn Scots Guards

1 Battalion used RF F G LF 2nd Bn Scots Guards

1 Battalion used "King's Coy", 2 3 4   1st Bn Grenadier Guards

1 Battalion used A B C I 1st Bn Rifle Brigade

1 Battalion used A B C H 1st Bn Somerset Light Infantry

In summary, stripping out the Foot Guards, and the single TF Battalion (leaving 103 Regular Line Infantry Battalions):

93% used A B C D

5% used W X Y Z

2% used 1 2 3 4

2% used A B C plus another letter (not D)

% Numbers not exact due to rounding. MG

 

Some curiosities:

1. 1st Bn ABCD and 2nd Bn WXYZ fits in all but one example. The anomaly is the Essex Regt whose 1st Bn was WXYZ and 2nd Bn was ABCD. I can only imagine that the 2nd Bn (UK based) had snatched ABCD before 1st Bn (Mauritius) reorganised and took WXYZ to differentate from 2nd Bn.

2. KOSB and Gordon Highlanders using 1,2,3,4 when their sister battalions were using letters. The 1st Bn KOSB using 1,2,3,4 comes from an early (1914) diary entry. By time the Battalion deployed (Gallipoli) it was using A,B,C,D. It raises the possibility that other overseas Battalions used 1,2,3,4 before coming into line.

3. 1st Bn Rifle Brigade's I Coy has something to do with history. I used to know but have forgotten. Peninsula War I believe...

4. 1st Bn Somerset Light Infantry's H Coy. Started the war as D Coy and by First Ypres was H Coy. Curious to know why. I can only think it was so full of Special Reservists they renamed it. My speculation.

[ddycher]

Thanks all.

 

Anybody have more ref’s for 2nd line TF units before the changes of Jan 1915 ?

 

regards

Dave