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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

Eight Company structure? I'm still stuck...


peter__m

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Sorry.

I'm curious.

My great grandfather James Mullan's grave details list him as a member of 'G' company.

I've been reading through Falls and Jimmy Taylor's book and have spotted no mention of a 'G' company yet.

Perhaps I need some more sleep.

I thought there were just 4 companies.

This is information listed from the war graves site for my great grandfather.

Is this a typo or what's the crack?

Someone who knows these things please advise!

Thanks,

Peter

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Sorry but I do not know about the Royal Irish Rifles, but last week I was given a list of battles that my wife's grandfather was supposed to have fought in and he had put down Z coy. On reading the war diary for the 1st Essex I was surprised to find W X Y and Z, so G seems plausible to me. I am sure an expert will come along soon.

Regards Kevin

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Thanks,

Yeah right ok I think that's making sense.

Have heard some other war stories with companies of far end alphabet descendance.

Just haven't read a mention of them in 2nd RIR in any war diaries or accounts....

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  • 1 month later...

OK...I've finished reading Lucy's 'There's a Devil in the Drum.' This personal account makes no mention of 'G' company either. He seems to be talking about only A, B, C and D.

I need help formation experts!

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Ahoj!

Do a search. The 8 company issue was debated at lenght not so long ago.

The short of it - in 1914 the British army was just completing a switch from 8 to 4 coy battalions. Some battalions went to war still with eight.

Borys

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Peter,

To save confusion when some regular/service battalions were serving nearby, some Regiments adopted a policy of lettering them differently and so you'd have a 1st Bn with letters 'A'; 'B'; 'C' & 'D' Companies and the 2nd Bn with 'W'; 'X'; 'Y' & 'Z' Companies. Some went from 'A' through to 'H', with last four letters for the 2nd Bn, but there seemed to be no hard and fast rule on it.

Graham.

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OK can I just set this out for you clever dudes to think it out...

My great grandfather was in the 2nd Battalion of the Royal Irish Rifles.

His grave details list him as in 'G' company.

Now...I've been reading Lucy's book from the same battalion and he talks about A, B, C, D

Now does that mean effectively 'G' is Lucy's 'C'?

Do you get what I'm at here? I trying to link his movements to action in the book.

This is doing my bap in! Ahhhhhhhhhhh...help...

Thanks to all so far...

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William of Occam, please call your answering service ...

Could it be that 'G' is a typographical/stenographical/stonecutter's error?

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Pals,

Off the top of my head I can't be 100% certain of the units, but fairly sure it was Devons, but two Battns serving in the same brigade adopted A,B,C,D and 1,2,3,4 to avoid confusion.

Regards

Steve

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If a battalion company was practically wiped would they have named their C company G with the new men perhaps?

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If a battalion company was practically wiped would they have named their C company G with the new men perhaps?

It's hard to say what changes would have been made; depends on the circumstances. For example after the disastrous first days of July in 1916, the 1st Dorsets were reconstituted as follows (details from CSM Ernest Sherhard's Diary):

"All Bns in the Brigade are now forming 2 Coys out of the remnants of the 4 Coys to simplify work. Also all officers, warrant officers and NCOs over the complement of the 2 Coys are to be left behind when we go into action again, thus forming a reserve of ranks to keep the Bn going....A and B Companies will be joined together and called the 'Right Company', C and D same and called the 'Left Company'."

This amalgamation extended down to Platoon level too, as Ernest goes on to say how his No.5 and 6 Platoons were turned into No.3 Platoon, and No.7 and 8 Platoons turned into No.4 Platoon of Right Company (Ernest was in B Company).

Regards

Steve

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Thanks Steve, that's interesting to read...I just cannot make head nor tail of it at the minute and I'd really like to get to the bottom of it...

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Hello,

It should not be forgotten that, post WW1, some regiments, e.g. The Hampshire (later Royal Hampshire) Regiment (now part of the Princess of Wales Royal Regiment, if I am up to date, which is unlikely) designated their companies 'W,X,Y & Z' commemorating the designation of the beaches at Gallipoli.

Old Tom

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Anybody any other ideas why there is no mention of a 'G' company in Lucy's book?

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Pete,

If you've consistently read that it is A, B, C and D Coys then my money would be on it being a typo.

When you say his graves details - do you mean from the CWGC website?

If so I would bet on it being an error during the digitizing (?) process and get them to look at original records. When the records were prepared for the web site numerous errors were made - for example the record on my Aunties grandfather’s grave was never included and I had to chase them up to do it.

Alternatively perhaps he was a bomber and 'G' refers to the bombardiers/grenadiers and it was adopted within the Battalion

cheers

Mike

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Very good thinking Mike.

Thanks for taking the time to engage your brain...you've given me a few good possibles...

It's certainly frying my brain this one.

:)

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OK...just asking finally folks?

Is there any else out there who knows more about this?

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  • 2 weeks later...

I'm reading Burgoyne's diaries now.

I still can't get this question answered.

Come on there must be someone out there?

When he writes about coming to relieve companies in the trenches he gives references like H1 and H2.

He is commanding 'C' company.

Still no mention of a 'G' company.

I know there were differences but why is this listed on my great grandfather's grave details and yet I can find no record of them structuring outside of 4 companies?

I really need further help on this one.

It seems a very strange typo!

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When he writes about coming to relieve companies in the trenches he gives references like H1 and H2.

Hi Pete,

Not solved it yet :(

I'd guess that these are references to trenches. May of the front line trenches around Kemmel & Ypres in 1915 were called after letters of the alphabet.

Where and when are these references?

My money is still on a typo - for example what would you call the following Company - "C" or "G” ?

post-4619-1170615965.jpg

either is possible B)

and this?

post-4619-1170616103.jpg

What is it that Sherlock Holmes said ?

"It is an old maxim of mine that when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth"

If you have found no existance of a G Coy then C is the most likely

Have you tried to see if there are any other men on the GWGC listed with G Coy?

cheers

Mike

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I'm going to do that Mike thanks very much.

It's very interesting to see that grave marking.

That may well be what has happened.

Thanks for you thoughts. Much appreciated.

Sorry thought I had replied to your post long ago.

Very rude of me.

Good thinking. Thanks.

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Ok.

This is very interesting.

This is the link to the cemetery in Le Bizet.

The men who were involved in the incident with my great , James Mullan are buried here too.

Doherty

Erskine

MacKenzie - RAMC

None of these men have the 'G' company info listed in their grave details.

Why is my great grandfather the only one to have this?

http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_report...7800&mode=1

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  • 4 years later...

Dear Peter M

I am now living in Armentieres for the last couple of years. During that time I discovered the graves you speak about, while visiting the grave of my mother in law. I have been in touch with the graves comission regarding the state of the graves and they have promised to look into the matter. Hopefully I will see an improvement when I visit "my boys" on their anniversary on the 28th of Nov. Being irish I have a special interest.

I was delighted to find your information regarding Sgt. Mullan and would appreciate any information you might have on the other 3 soldiers.

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  • 3 years later...

Mike,

8 (eight !) years ago you wrote to Peter :

"Have you tried to see if there are any other men on the GWGC listed with G Coy?"

Well, as it happens, "my man" (who I have been researching for over 10 years ; 4/RIR > 2/RIR ; fallen June 1915 near Ypres) has ... G company too ! And it has bothered me for years !

And as Peter mentioned too : nowhere else (Lucy and elsewhere) do I find any mention of a Company G !

Frustrating !

A typo or so ? I wish I could 100% sure, for it would help me so much if I knew he was in Company C !

Aurel

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