War Memorials, in general

[clarkc_bpo]

Hi all,

I've a general query on War Memorials in this country.

What was the determining factor in deciding which memorial would bear that persons name ?

Was it simply done from the enlistment records, ie on last known address ? My Gt-G'father was from Fife, but shortly before the war began to move around the country, presumably in search of work. His name apparently appears on a war memorial in Torphican, a small village south of Falkirk, and his SDGW entry lists his residence as Avonbridge, a village near Torphican. Yet, all his family and his previous life up to around 1910 was over here in Fife, and on his death his widow returned 'home' to Fife. It seems sad that his home-town does not record his loss.

I imagine there is no definitive rule on this, but any opinions or input would be most welcome cos I'm a bit puzzled.

regards

Clark

[PBI]

After the Great War,many of the Local Councils made appeals to the Locals via Newspapers on names for inclusion on the Local War Memorial.In the case of Bermondsey/Southwark Council in London,after the N.O.K. had contacted said Council,an application Form was issued to be completed by the N.O.K.,in which they could list all details about the Dead Man..IE Name,Regt,Rank,DOD,and place of Burial/commemoration,it is not uncommon for some Men to appear up to 3 different Memorials in their Locale.

[Canadawwi]

I have looked up the names on over 25 Canadian War memorials, and have some general observations on the decisions relating to names. I suspect the organization was somewhat similar in spirit to that in Britain.

Generally local community groups conducted fund raising and requested that families come forward with the name and details. If a regiment had been raised locally, they would go through their lists and attempt to determine the names of the dead. I have also seen newspaper postings requesting that families come forward by a specific date. Some communities did not inscribe names because they knew it was likely someone would be missed.

In one case I had some confusion regarding a Toronto Street Railway memorial. After locating nearly all the men with "conductor" and so on, in their attestations, I then cross referenced this against newspaper obituaries. Here I found another 25 or so names that appeared to have been missed. Further investigation in the newspaper on the unveiling date revealed that the plaque only contained the unionized employees' names, and not the non-union. I recount this as one just never knows what twist might be involved.

In some cases I discover that a name would appear for someone who had worked in the community, or was a frequent visitor.

Men frequently appear on two memorials - where they were born, and where they lived. I can think of 6 or so instances.

[John_Hartley]

The "village" memorial nearest to me was erected by public subscription. The leading light in establishing the committee was the local vicar but I've been unable to establish the criteria for inclusion. Often the inscription on a memorial may give the clue.

On another nearby memorial, one man is included who had only worked in the area for a few weeks but, presumably, his colleagues felt it important he should be recognised.

Although I have no confirmatory evidence, I've been well informed that the main city memorial at Chester contains the names of quite a few who had absolutely no connection with the city. The council had placed a "remembrance book" in which proposed names were to be entered. The city, then as now, was something of a tourist location and visitors simply palce dtheir names of their relatives in the book. So the story goes.

Forum member, Greenwoodman, will tell you of a name that appears on several memorials in the Sandbach area - and he hasnt been able to identify who it is.

Within my Stockport research project, there are sevral men commemorated on three civic memorials - leaving aside any memorials in churches, schools, workplaces, sporting clubs, etc.

John

[Guest mruk]

Hello Clark,

I can't really add anything more to what the previous respondents have said, except to say that memorials come in all shapes and sizes, as I'm sure you are probably aware. Here is an appeal to the congregation at St. Barnabas' Church [Holbeck] in Leeds, which is signed by J.C.F. Wood [Vicar], J.W. Heavisides, and E.M. Steele [Wardens]. The appeal is quite modest by some standards, but the sentiments remain the same.

ST. BARNABAS' CHURCH, HOLBECK

WAR MEMORIAL

Dear Sir or Madam,

It has been decided at a Congregational Meeting with reference to the above, to install in the Church, two Oak Standard Sanctuary Lights, in order to perpetuate the memory of the gallant men of the Parish, who nobly gave their lives in their country's cause.

It has been thought advisable to open a Shilling Fund, thus enabling all to contribute towards the cost of the Memorial. We have decided upon the design, and are asking for a further £15. We shall be pleased to accept your contribution, whether large or small.

Contributions may be forwarded to Mr. E. Parsons, 54, Sweet Street West, Holbeck, who is Treasurer for the Fund, or you may send your contribution with our visitor when he or she calls again.

Cheers,

Dave

PS: The subject of commemoration is covered most ably in "Sites of Memory, Sites of Mourning" by Jay Winter.

[clarkc_bpo]

Thanks for these observations guys. Will check the local newspaper archives for appeals etc. Thanks.

Hello Clark,

I can't really add anything more to what the previous respondents have said, except to say that memorials come in all shapes and sizes, as I'm sure you are probably aware. Here is an appeal to the congregation at St. Barnabas' Church [Holbeck] in Leeds, which is signed by J.C.F. Wood [Vicar], J.W. Heavisides, and E.M. Steele [Wardens]. The appeal is quite modest by some standards, but the sentiments remain the same.

ST. BARNABAS' CHURCH, HOLBECK

WAR MEMORIAL

Dear Sir or Madam,

It has been decided at a Congregational Meeting with reference to the above, to install in the Church, two Oak Standard Sanctuary Lights, in order to perpetuate the memory of the gallant men of the Parish, who nobly gave their lives in their country's cause.

It has been thought advisable to open a Shilling Fund, thus enabling all to contribute towards the cost of the Memorial. We have decided upon the design, and are asking for a further £15. We shall be pleased to accept your contribution, whether large or small.

Contributions may be forwarded to Mr. E. Parsons, 54, Sweet Street West, Holbeck, who is Treasurer for the Fund, or you may send your contribution with our visitor when he or she calls again.

Cheers,

Dave

PS: The subject of commemoration is covered most ably in "Sites of Memory, Sites of Mourning" by Jay Winter.

[Guest mruk]

Hello Clark,

You might want to check the miscellaneous files held in your local history section--it depends on how big your library is, of course.

Cheers,

Dave

[dycer]

Clark,

As you are from the Kingdom,Have a look on the Search Engine e.g. Kirkcaldy,Burntisland,etc.

There is a Forum Member or two who have an interest in the War Memorials in Fife.

You don't mention where your Grt/Grandfather was brought up but they may already have information on his Town's Memorial and criteria for inclusion.

Although a Fifer myself I cannot help directly,sorry.

George

[clarkc_bpo]

Hi George,

My grt-granfather was born in Kinghorn but moved to Kirkcaldy when his father (who was born Burntisland as was his grandfather and great-grandfather) died of smallpox. The family then all lived in Kirkcaldy, but my grt-grandfather moved around 1909 to Standburn near Falkirk to work in a pit there. He is is on the memorial there apparently, although I haven't checked it out myself yet. The family (his mother and

brothers and sisters) remained in Kirkcaldy, and his wifes family were all in Kinghorn. Hence my frustration at him not being on a local memorial, when even down to this generation we have all (his sons, grandsons, great-grandchildren and now gt-gt-grandchildren) remained in the same 7 mile stretch of coastline !

phew ! too many generations there to follow huh ?

regards

Clark

Clark,

As you are from the Kingdom,Have a look on the Search Engine e.g. Kirkcaldy,Burntisland,etc.

There is a Forum Member or two who have an interest in the War Memorials in Fife.

You don't mention where your Grt/Grandfather was brought up but they may already have information on his Town's Memorial and criteria for inclusion.

Although a Fifer myself I cannot help directly,sorry.

George

[dycer]

Clark,

It's certainly worth using the key words Kirkcaldy and Burntisland as I suggested as I know the Colleagues I am referring to come from your neck of the woods.

You're lucky. I had lived in St Andrews,Kirkcaldy,Cowdenbeath and Glenrothes by the time I was 8,then moved to Aberdeen.

I trust your Family had a blameless life in Kinghorn,etc between the Wars as my Father was a Bobby in all the Towns you mention in the 20/30's and early 50's

No help to you I'm afraid but he and his brothers were born and brought up in Haddington and his Brothers are on the Haddington Memorials.

George

[clarkc_bpo]

entirely angelic, George, entirely angelic...

Clark,

It's certainly worth using the key words Kirkcaldy and Burntisland as I suggested as I know the Colleagues I am referring to come from your neck of the woods.

You're lucky. I had lived in St Andrews,Kirkcaldy,Cowdenbeath and Glenrothes by the time I was 8,then moved to Aberdeen.

I trust your Family had a blameless life in Kinghorn,etc between the Wars as my Father was a Bobby in all the Towns you mention in the 20/30's and early 50's

No help to you I'm afraid but he and his brothers were born and brought up in Haddington and his Brothers are on the Haddington Memorials.

George