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John_Hartley

Widows buried in CWGC graves

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John_Hartley

Whilst we were on the Pals walkabout in Accrington cemetery on Sunday, we came across a grave in which the widow, who died in 1962, was also buried. None of us had seen this before and wondered how common it might be.

Presumably CWGC has some criteria for approving this, or is it a "right" (as I believe would happen in the US with widows of soldiers buried at Arlington National Cemetery). Does it only apply in the UK or could a widow ask to be buried with the serviceman in, say, Belgium?

John

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Terry Denham

No burials of widows etc are permitted in CWGC graves.

However, in the home countries many graves are privately owned (with or without CWGC headstones). Subsequent burials cannot be prevented in these as they are not under CWGC control. (Being privately owned does not affect their status as official war graves).

It is not infrequent in the UK to find widows, brothers etc buried in a private grave along with an official casualty. Where the grave has a CWGC headstone, an additional inscription is permitted at the bottom but at the relatives' expense. However, if the headstone needs replacing at any stage, CWGC would pay the full cost.

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Paul Reed

What about ashes, Terry? I thought there were one or two widdows ashes buried in graves at Oosterbeek in Arnhem?

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Terry Denham

Paul

There is no special dispensation for ashes.

CWGC records do not show any such burials at Oosterbeek. However, that is not to say that ashes have not been scattered on graves or even quietly buried there.

If such events have taken place on the quiet, I can't imagine CWGC making too much fuss (even if they were aware of them) as there is a world of difference between a small pile of ashes and a full scale grave reopening for a funeral.

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Paul Reed

Thanks for that Terry - I thought as much.

However, how do you explain the burial of the brother of a WW1 soldier in the war grave at Carnoy BC in the last year or so?!

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Terry Denham

Paul

CWGC records show no such burial.

Can you give me details - name etc - or your source and I'll check it out.

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John_Hartley

Terry - thanks for the explanation. I assume, therefore, that it must be a privately owned grave with CWGC headstone. This is it

post-19-1069251316.jpg

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trenchwalker

how about barney hines he was buried in a ozzy cemetarie with full military honours in 1954.

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Terry Denham

Trench

What do you mean?

Who is Hines and where was he buried?

The same can apply in Australia as many of the graves will be privately owned as explained above.

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Terry Denham

John

Good picture. Yes, it is like many headstones with a later inscription that I have seen in the UK - from both wars. It will be a privately owned grave as described.

Judging by the state of the inscriptions, it is a fairly new headstone suggesting that it was erected not too long ago - possibly after a private memorial had fallen into disrepair and had been removed.

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trenchwalker

barney hines the cleptomaniac who was wanted by the kiaser.

who tryed to join the army ww2.

when he died he was givern full military honours and buried in a ozzy military cemetary.

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John_Hartley

Terry

Cheers, mate. Clears that one up.

Thanks for comment about photo. First time out "in anger" with a digital camera. Quite pleased with the results.

John

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paul guthrie

Hines was the greatest scavenger of the war. There is a great picture of him with an amazing amount of loot. I have it but can't post it.

I have his records, born Liverpoo , had previous service Kings Liverpool. Was 36 when he joined . Was slightly wounded, discharged medically unfit 1916. Well, looks like I have two John Hines, other one also born Liverpool was 28. Yes he's the right one, long list of crimes absence, drunkenness, wounded, lots of forfeitures of pay. Don't see the picture but it's great. He was supposedly very brave in combat, a real terror.

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Terry Denham

Paul (Reed)

I have checked the Carnoy story and CWGC have confirmed that there was no such burial.

However, the ashes of a brother were put in a grave in June 2002. It seems, as we suspected, that the scattering or the placing of ashes in the ground above a grave is not actively objected to by CWGC.

They have reiterated their policy of no actual burials being allowed in a grave in their ownership.

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trenchwalker

john 'barney' hines

the souvenir king

post-19-1069264550.jpg

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Paul Reed

Thanks Terry - I had thought it might be ashes, but was told locally that a coffin had been buried there! Was it as long ago as June 2002?! I must be getting old - time seems to pass more quickly!

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trenchwalker

his grave

post-19-1069264792.jpg

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Bombadier

Within the last year or so, there was a newspaper report of a widow's ashes being taken by naval divers and placed, with full permission, on the wreck of the ship her husband died on. I can't remember the name of the ship but I believe that the divers took the ashes down on one of their routine inspections.

I will see if I can find more.

Nigel

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Terry Denham

Maritime wrecks are often referred to as 'war graves' and they do have special protection in UK law to prevent unauthorised attention by divers and souvenir hunters.

However, they are not 'war graves' in CWGC terms and the Commission has no respnsibility for them. The names of those lost on board are listed on the official CWGC naval memorials around the world.

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Michael

Whilst down the Falklands in '89 on the Broadsword we dived on the wreck of the Ardent in San Carlos to replace her white ensign in respect of the 22 matelots who died in her in.

Michael

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