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Remembered Today:

The French in Serbia 1917


christine liava'a

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Can anybody decipher this Place of Death, taken from the Memoire des Hommes site?

What were the French army doing in Serbia in 1917?

post-554-1164480265.jpg

post-554-1164480374.jpg

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I cannot read the number (but I think its the 1st), but your man was a "Marsouin" (Dolphin) a soldier of the Colonial Infantry

Battalions of the 1st served in Macedonia from 1917 onwards where a large number of Colonial Battalions drawn from the 1st, 3rd, 4th, 8th, 34th, 37th, 38th, 42nd, 44th, 54th and 56th Colonial Infantry regiments made up the 11th, 16th and 17th Colonial Infantry Divisions (the 1st was part of the 17th)

Although the Colonial troops were predominantly Frenchmen recruited for service overseas any French subject with relevant qualifications could join. Unlike the Regiments made up from specific colonies once in you could be sent all over. Individuals were meant to return to France for a year after every two overseas then be re-posted to a different colony. To this end Regiments in France were twinned with ones in the colonies, so you could find a Cambodian serving in Morrocco for example.

The 1st were based at Cherbourg and were already an old and distinguished Regiment by 1914. During the 19th Century they served in the Baltic, Greece, China, Vietnam and Senegal and fought the Prussians in France in 1870. In 1910 the Regiment was collectively awarded the Legion of Honour in recognition of its services.

The 1st were in the balkans until September 1919, initially facing the Bulgarians at the Grand Couronne. In 1918 they took part in the Kravitza offensive taking Dobropolje between the 15th and 18th Sept. For this the Regiment was collectively awarded the Croix de Guerre and the right to wear a lanyard in its red and green colours.

During the last war a whole battalion from the Pacific was part of the 1st and served with them in the Western Desert. The Regiment still exists today and is based at Angouleme in a light armoured role.

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Thanks Tintin. Have you any idea where the 1st might have been in late August 1917 or any battles at that time, since he was "killed by the enemy"?

Christine

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The squiggles on the last letter are confusing. Is that supposed to be a "k"? Or something else with an accent?

On 27 August '17 according to http://perso.orange.fr/grande.guerre/aout17.html, the French repulsed an attack between lakes Ohrid and Prespa, and the next day were launching patrols north of Monastir/Bitola, so it could be the name of a village in that area. I don't have a detailed enough period map to show all the villages, unfortunately.

The area was supposed to go to Bulgaria after the First Balkan War, but was occupied and claimed by Serbia in 1912.

The word looks a bit like Banica - present-day Vevi in Greece, about 20km east of Florina. But this would have been a fair way back from the front line (25-30 miles?). Perhaps if he was wounded near Monastir and died while being evacuated by train to Salonika?

Anyone got a detailed map of the French front line?

P.S. Is this a relative of the archbishop brothers of Papeete?

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P.S. Is this a relative of the archbishop brothers of Papeete?

Yes.

but also the probable great grandfather of someone here in NZ

Thanks for the info. I'll see if I can find a big map.

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I read the date of death as 17 August. Here is what was happening in Monastir then.

VII

THE BOMBARDMENT OF MONASTIR, 1917

Monastir, August 17, 1917

ALONG in the afternoon the intermittent bombardment of Monastir, which had been going on all the morning, suddenly increased in volume, until at four o'clock the noise of the bursting shells became a continual rumble, and tongues of flame mingled with the smoke and dust clouds which continuously shot up over the house-tops of the city.

The greater part of the Section was grouped on a hillside near camp, whence we could watch the bombardment. Two of our cars were on duty in the city, but we had no news of them. Immediately after dinner, Tracy and I, having been assigned to twenty-four hours' duty in Monastir, left camp. The bombardment seemed to increase in violence as we approached the unfortunate city, and fire was sweeping the eastern quarter. As we drove up the Grande Rue, which practically cuts the city in half, we could see that the eastern part of the town had suffered most.

In the Grande Rue the confusion was indescribable. Women with babies in their arms and with little children clinging to their skirts, and men carrying grotesque burdens of household possessions hastily salvaged, ran hither and thither in an agony of terror. Others cowered in their doorways, fearful of the open, while several knelt directly in our path, beseeching us to take them to a place of safety. Men even jumped upon the steps of the ambulances from which we forcibly dislodged them.

Arriving at the hospital we found it undamaged, being well to the north of the city, and nearer the Bulgar and Boche positions. There we relieved Sinclair and Russell, who then left for Florina with wounded, and being the last to leave, were forced to quit the town by a circuitous route through the western section, as shells were again falling in the Grande Rue.

Tracy and I were at once despatched to the offices of the hospital, which were located a little to the east of the Grande Rue. We found the building intact, though surrounded by flames. Tracy took the books and records in his car, while I went to the other end of the city to the English hospital for civilian Serbs, accompanied by an old Serbian woman, who had had her leg blown off. I found the Grande Rue still passable, though some of the buildings lining it were in flames. Shells were now falling to the west of the street.

Having delivered my wounded, I returned to the G.B.D. Hospital, where Tracy was preparing to make another trip to the offices. He left a little later, brought back the last of the salvage from that building, and reported that the fire was gaining headway in the Grande Rue, which he thought was impassable because of fallen débris. This was not the case, however, as Grenville Keogh, who had been sent for to help handle the emergency calls, came through it soon afterward, though his celluloid goggles were ignited by a burning fragment of wood, and one of his eyebrows went with them as they fizzled up in smoke.

As no more calls came, we remained at the hospital, and at eight o'clock the firing dropped to an intermittent cannonade. This continued until midnight, when we found that east of the Grande Rue, the city was practically destroyed. Incendiary bombs as well as high-explosive had been used, and fire and shell had done their work thoroughly. The French military authorities estimated that two thousand shells had fallen between four and eight o'clock that evening.

http://www.lib.byu.edu/~rdh/wwi/memoir/AFShist/AFS1j.htm

but it could equally well be the 27th

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That's the same Banica/Banitza I mentioned (20k E of Florina) on the road and rail line from Monastir to Salonika. Now called Vevi.

Pretty sure that date of death is 27th. That's a pretty typical "continental" style "7". Contrast it with the "21" for his date of birth "Ne le 21 Aout 1889".

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Yes, I think it is the 27th, and Banitza.

On Memoire des Hommes, they do not appear to have cemeteries for those who died outside France, or perhaps France/Flanders.

Coppenrath does not have a cemetery mentioned, nor do the 2 we know about in Fremantle and Wellington.

Do the French have war cemeteries outside of France, like the British do?

If so, is there one at Banitza/Vevi?

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There are certainly French cemeteries outside France, and they are looked after in much the same way as the CWGC cemeteries, but I don't know of any register of names.

There are some 8,000 Frenchmen buried or commemorated at the Allied Cemetery (Lembet Road) here in Salonika, but AFAIK the CWGC only lists the Commonwealth graves in their own plot.

There are also a few Frenchmen buried in CWGC cemeteries.

I'll ask around if anyone knows of a register for the French graves at Lembet Road. Failing that, I could go and have a look myself - but probably not until next week.

I'll also try to find out if there's a cemetery at Vevi.

Regards,

Adrian

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Yes, I think it is the 27th, and Banitza.

If so, is there one at Banitza/Vevi?

Have you guys nailed down the location? I have one or more good detailed maps of the region, if more search is needed. I recently tracked down a bunch of place names for a guy writing a book about a German philosopher who served in a flak battery in the area, from letters, and I was able to find most of them. About a third have had their names changed from 1917 to the 1970's, some from the Turkish.

I can also offer imperfect translation (limited, please) for local lingo, as I have fair Serbo-Croatian (you know you're getting old when your languages are obsolete) and about a dozen dictionaries in about three of the local languages and dialects. Not in Macedonian, but these languages blend together as one moves along. Linguists like to classify these Jugoslav (South Slav) languages by the way they state the word "milk".

Bob Lembke

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Hi Bob,

We need all the help we can get! Can you find anything on your maps that resembles the handwriting on the card more than "Banica"?

I've found that 1er Regt. d'Infanterie Coloniale was part of 17e Division d'Infanterie Coloniale, which was stationed along the Cerna river bend ("le boucle de la Tcherna") from May to mid-August 1917. That's the U-shaped river in the map that Christine linked to, running down past Novak and Brod, and back up again.

So that certainly brings them very close to Banica/Vevi - about 10 miles at the nearest point.

My contact thinks there's a register of French burials in the chapel at Lembet Road cemetery, so I'll have to find time to go there.

Adrian

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Adrian, I didn't realise you were actually in Thessalonika!

If you find Coppenrath's grave, or anyother French Pacific

soldiers,I'd be very grateful for photographs.

Christine

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Found my old Jugoslav road map, and found Florina and Vevi, which a Pal has stated probably is the place, Banica. I, with bionic eyes, could not read the scan of the card well. It is possible that the "c" could have an accent, which would make it soft; with no accent, it would be a hard "c". Looked about for another village with a possible match name, no luck. Vevi is clearly a major road junction in a heavily under-roaded area, so it would have been a good spot to be evacuated to and to die in.

East of Monastir (now Bitola) I found the loop of the Crna reka (literally Black River). Be warned that as that and other rivers/streams meander about they seem to acquire other names; on my map it is marked as "Black River" due east about 10 km from Monastir/Bitola; nowhere else is it marked as such.

I may have been in Bitola, or possibly Prilep off to the NNE, 35 years ago while looking at a tabacco factory; I like most of "ex-Jugoslavija", but I would rather not go to that obscure corner to fight and die in some obscure dust-up. My father spent a bit of time in the general area while returning to Germany from Gallipoli in late 1915, and went back in the 1920's, but did not fight in the Balkans, apart from Gallipoli. I was in Bulgaria, east of this area, two years ago.

I think you guys have this question knocked.

Bob Lembke

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This might not be a lot of help - but you could always write to the Regiment

1er Régiment d'Infanterie de Marine

Quartier Fayolle

BP 1402

16017 ANGOULEME CEDEX

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I'll pass all this on to the great granddaughter, and she can contact France if she wishes. I am just interested in photos of his and other French Polynesian graves, anywhere!

Thanks Tintin, Bob and Adrian.

Christine

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There are some 8,000 Frenchmen buried or commemorated at the Allied Cemetery (Lembet Road) here in Salonika, but AFAIK the CWGC only lists the Commonwealth graves in their own plot.

There are also a few Frenchmen buried in CWGC cemeteries.

CWGC do not care for any French casualties in Lembet Road. The only Foreign Nationals in their care there are Bulgarian war graves.

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Thanks Michael,

That confirms Bernick/Banica/Banitza/Vevi and the 27th, but does not give a cemetery either. Let's hope Adrian can find a list of French names.

Christine

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Thanks for the link, Michael! That's very useful.

I realise the database is far from complete, but it's interesting to see that there are 1305 French WWI casualties listed for Serbie (versus only 152 for Greece), of which over 900 are from 1917 alone. Soldat Coppenrath was one of only 3 casualties in his regiment that entire year, and no-one else was killed on the same day. There's a CUREAU Anatole of the same regiment killed "devant Bernick" on 18/4/18.

Anyway we now have the form "Bernick" to work with. I'd be wary of equating that with Bernica/Vevi. There's another man (BERTOUMIEUX Jean Pierre) who was killed at "Brnik" on 17/5/17. Other records show spelling changes like Kerklina = Krklina, etc.

So I would guess that Bernick = Brnik. Brnik is a small town in FYROM about 27km east-north-east of Bitola/Monastir, inside the river loop, probably just north of where it says Makovo on the map Christine linked to http://www.gwpda.org/memoir/Salonica/images/sal08.gif

I can't find the place marked on any of my maps or on any maps on the web (we need your roadmaps, Bob!), but if you have Google Earth, type in "Brnik, Macedonia".

If this is the right place, then I think it's far more likely that our man is buried at the large French Military Cemetery in Bitola

http://debris.mayjonade.free.fr/EUGENE/cim...re%20Bitola.htm

I've discovered that the website of the French Embassy in Skopje (www.ambafrance-mk.org) used to link to a searchable register of the burials at Bitola and Skopje (www.mismilskopje.org), but this site has been dead for over a year now. I suppose one could email the embassy consul@ambafrance-mk.org to ask, but my French isn't really up to the task!

Here in Thessaloniki, the French Consulate General apparently has a list of those buried in Salonika Cemetery, and routinely answer such queries by mail: Thessalonique.consulfrance@diplomatie.gouv.fr, but now I seriously doubt that our man is here after all.

Hope this helps!

Adrian

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So I would guess that Bernick = Brnik. Brnik is a small town in FYROM about 27km east-north-east of Bitola/Monastir, inside the river loop, probably just north of where it says Makovo on the map Christine linked to http://www.gwpda.org/memoir/Salonica/images/sal08.gif

I can't find the place marked on any of my maps or on any maps on the web (we need your roadmaps, Bob!), but if you have Google Earth, type in "Brnik, Macedonia".

Adrian

I have looked on my roadmap but it does not show a "Bernick = Brnik" or anything near to that where you indicated.

Bob Lembke

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Ah, but look here

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?addre...K&geodiff=1

go directly right from Bitola = Monastir, then due north from Iveni, to Brnik, near the edge of the map,

You can find Vevi by going south from Bitola into Greece. Click on Lofi as centre

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and here are photos of the French Cemetery in Bitola/Monastir

http://www.bitola.de/gallery2.htm

Unfortunately no names!

and some old postcards of Monastir and the French in WW1

http://www.postcardman.net/macedonia_monastir.html

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go directly right from Bitola = Monastir, then due north from Iveni, to Brnik, near the edge of the map,

You can find Vevi by going south from Bitola into Greece. Click on Lofi as centre

That's the one I mean, just southeast of Makovo (not north as I said).

The proximity to Rapeš ties in with this French Wikipedia entry on the 17e Division d'Infanterie Coloniale (of which 1er Regt. was a part):

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/17e_division_...terie_coloniale

Quote: "29 décembre 1916 – 9 mai 1917: Relève par des éléments italiens, retrait du front et repos entre Monastir et Florina ; puis occupation d'un nouveau secteur dans la région Rapéch, Bernik."

Confusingly, there also appears to be a place called Beranci/Berantsi due north of Bitola, and another Banica in nearby Strumica region, but I reckon it must be Brnik that we're after.

Google Earth coords of Bitola French Cemetery: N41 02 25, E21 21 33 (quite a clear view!)

Re. "Unfortunately no names"

Some at least do! See the close-up http://www.bitola.de/images/galerien/gal2/...0last%20004.jpg

Maybe in the other photos they're just not visible due to distance, poor resolution, sunlight etc.

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Yes,I saw that photo, but that is the only one.

Brnik seems more likely than Banitza, so the French cemetery at Monastir/Bitola is also more likely

Now to find cemetery records, if possible.

Why do you think Monastir changed its name to something so different, when everywhere else, although having different names in different languages, has a recognizable similarity?

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