20th Territorial Force Depot?

[Ray Tomlinson]

20th Territorial Force Depot (circa 1917/18) - anyone know where it was? ... what it did?

Thanks - Ray

[Charles Fair]

It will probably be the HQ Drill hall of a TF battalion or other major TF unit. The depots of TF units were renumbered as TF Depots in c. late 1916/1917. This must have been something tod do with the rationalisation of the TF post the introduction of the 1916 Military Service Acts. There ought to be an ACI with chapter and verse somewhere on this. (Maybe someone such as Charles Messenger or Graham Stewart van confirm.)

If you look in one of the documents in WO 114 covering the Strengths of the TF at home - such as WO 114/33 - the TF depots are listed.

The HQ of the battalion that I am researching - 19th London Regiment - at 76, Camden High St was renumbered 59 TF Depot.

The copies I have only list the infantry. 20 is not listed, but these are the ones either side:

TF depot 18 was at Canterbury - for 4th and 5th E Kents

TF depot 21 was at Tonbridge - for 4th ans 5th W Kents and the Kent Cyclists

Could No 20 have been at Chatham for some of the TF Engineers? Or perhaps elsewhere in the county for an artillery unit? Please could you give some context for your query which might help?

Their role at this stage in the war seems to have been purely administrative. Typically with a strength of about 1 officer and 10 other ranks or so. However, they appaer to have had a large number of men 'on the books' who were not actually present but who were in hospital or at home recuperating. The 19th Londons typically had 200-250 men across several medical categories - some C but more D and E. Many would later be discharged wounded.

[Ray Tomlinson]

Thanks Charles. I'm inclined to the suggestion in your final para.

The context is as follows :-

My GF Henry Roberts served with 439 Ches Field Co Royal Engineers (446258 - originally 629) from August 1915. The first indication of the 20th TF Dep I have found is from the SWB Rolls when he was discharged in Nov. '18.

I've been in contact with another person who's GF was with the 20th but he was with a Yorks. Reg. the only common factor is the RE hence my thoughts that the 20th was an admin. facility for home based sick/wounded RE servicemen.

[paul_adam]

Resurrecting an old post here I know, but I am looking into someone who is cited as having been with 20th TF Depot, but not sure how to trace where they served.

He is referenced elsewhere on the site as follows:

Name: JENNINGS, DAVID WILLIAM

Initials: D W

Nationality: United Kingdom

Rank: 2nd Corporal

Regiment/Service: Royal Engineers

Unit Text: 20th (T.F.) Depot

Age: 29

Date of Death: 06/08/1918

Service No: 540499

Additional information: Son of David James Jennings, of 34, St. Martin's Terrace, Marlborough. A Member of the Kent County Cricket Eleven.

Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead

Grave/Memorial Reference: 764.

Cemetery: MARLBOROUGH OLD CEMETERY

He died from effects of gas and shell shock in F&F and I wanted to try and track down where he served and sustained those injuries. I can't quite fathom if the Depot would have been in F&F, I know the RE did have some overseas Depots, or if he was in another unit and attached to a Home Depot after being injured. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

[Ray Tomlinson]

Resurrecting an old post here I know, but I am looking into someone who is cited as having been with 20th TF Depot, but not sure how to trace where they served.

He is referenced elsewhere on the site as follows:

He died from effects of gas and shell shock in F&F and I wanted to try and track down where he served and sustained those injuries. I can't quite fathom if the Depot would have been in F&F, I know the RE did have some overseas Depots, or if he was in another unit and attached to a Home Depot after being injured. Any assistance would be appreciated.

Thanks

Paul

Hi Paul

Came back to my original thread entirely by accident. I never did work out the meaning of 20th TF Depot. In any event this wouldn't have helped in the search for a grandfather who disappeared shortly after his discharge, days before the armistice. His service/pension records no longer exist but after much head scratching and gnashing of teeth, I eventually tracked him down to an unmarked grave in the North of England where he has been lying since 1945.

The only thing I can add is that, according to the CWGC, Marlborough Old Cemetery is in Wiltshire. There are only 4 war graves there and not exclusively RE's. Did D W Jennings have any connection with Marlborough or, perhaps, he spent his last days in some nearby institution?

Best of luck

Ray

[Graham Stewart]

20th T.F. Depot - located Pier Road, Gillingham, Kent

Administrated Units;-

4th Home Counties(Howitzer)Bde, R.F.A.

Home Counties Heavy Battery, R.G.A.

Kent(Fortress)R.G.A.

Kent(Fortress)R.E.

[paul_adam]

Thank you both for your answers. Jennings died in St Mark's hospital in Tunbridge Wells and by then his family were living in Marlborough so I imagine they arranged the burial there.

I have just found his service records which show he was transferred to 20th TF Depot when he came back to England on sick leave.

Whilst in France it seems he was, from what I can tell, attached to 206th Field Company. Though to confuse matters there are also references to 489th Field Co but that seems to have been prior to his departure to France. The records are not totally legibile which is a shame but I do have something to work with.

Next step is to find what the 206th were up to in France from Jan to Apr 1918!

Graham, Pier Road is not far from my home, and Jennings was in the Kent Fortress RE. The RE School of Military Engineering was based in Chatham, and they do have a fantastic museum there which I would recommend anyone visiting if in the area.

Ray, well done finding your grandfathers resting place, sounds like a struggle with missing records.

[Ray Tomlinson]

Thank you both for your answers. Jennings died in St Mark's hospital in Tunbridge Wells and by then his family were living in Marlborough so I imagine they arranged the burial there.

I have just found his service records which show he was transferred to 20th TF Depot when he came back to England on sick leave.

Whilst in France it seems he was, from what I can tell, attached to 206th Field Company. Though to confuse matters there are also references to 489th Field Co but that seems to have been prior to his departure to France. The records are not totally legibile which is a shame but I do have something to work with.

Next step is to find what the 206th were up to in France from Jan to Apr 1918!

Graham, Pier Road is not far from my home, and Jennings was in the Kent Fortress RE. The RE School of Military Engineering was based in Chatham, and they do have a fantastic museum there which I would recommend anyone visiting if in the area.

Ray, well done finding your grandfathers resting place, sounds like a struggle with missing records.

Glad to help Paul although military matters are far from my specialist subject!

Graham, you clearly now more than I do re. such things. Can you shed any light on how a sapper with the Royal Engineers (Henry Roberts - 446258), from the Wirral, serving with the 439th Cheshire Field Company, ended up serving with a depot in Gillingham?

Ray

[Graham Stewart]

In a nutshell, I'm no wiser on RE matters than you are and suspect the only reason he would end up with 20th T.F.Depot would be due to a transfer to a unit being adminstered by them while serving overseas, which would be a similar scenario to Jennings mentioned above.

446258 Spr Henry Roberts is numbered in line with the block issued to the 1st Field Company(Cheshire), R.E.(T.F.). If no four figure number is found alongside his six figure number then he must have only been serving from 1917.

[Ray Tomlinson]

Thanks for the help Graham. According to his MIC, he served from 1/8/15 (Egypt) and his original "3" figure number was 629.

I assume, as with "Jennings", his transfer to the 20th TF Depot was due to sickness. According to the SWB roll, he was discharged as unfit for further service on 2/11/18 - as I said, just before the armistice. What I've never been able to understand is what form of sickness would have made him unable to continue service. He worked as a horse cab driver before the war and within a month of his discharge he was working as a stoker on a liner crossing the Atlantic - a profession which he appears to have continued until circa 1926.