pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Hi there, In this post I’m seeking info on my Grandfather, George (Birley?) Birkbeck, who served in and survived the Great War. He lived in West Hartlepool at the time of WW1. The Medal Index shows three Georges, George Birkbeck, Army Service Corps, T4/040623, Driver. George Birkbeck, Royal Engineers, 133237, Sapper. George William Birkbeck, 8th Hussars, 13394. Granddads gravestone shows him as George Birley Birkbeck but I cannot ever remember the name Birley being used in the family and have not found it on any census etc. records. William is a family name but once again I cannot remember it being used in connection with my Granddad. I remember as a child seeing a studio photo of Granddad in uniform and now realise the uniform was of WW1 vintage. Across his chest was a leather bandolier and I think he was holding riding crop or swagger type stick. He may also have been wearing spurs but my memory is definitely vague on this last point but he was definitely wearing puttees. There are feelings in the family that George may have also served in the Boer War Spurs do play a part in Granddads history as along with the photo was a pair of silver (the family said real silver) spurs which apparently belonged to an officer of Granddads. The officer was killed and had a leg detached and Granddad carried this leg at the officer’s burial and was given the silver spurs as a memorial. Several different family members have related this story to me so I must accept it as true. There are close family ties to horses as Granddad and his sons were in the coal delivery trade with horses and carts. Can anyone help me with information as to how to track down Granddads’ service history? Many Thanks Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 soldier papers might help Hussars obviously had horses and T4 in this context for the ASC means Aux Horse Transport Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2006 soldier papers might help Hussars obviously had horses and T4 in this context for the ASC means Aux Horse Transport Thanks Coldstreamer, What a prompt reply! Unfortunately no service docs survive within the family for our George, they have disappeared in the passing of the years. I'am trying to put together a Family Tree and George is proving to be very elusive! He was more often known as Peter and his family moved around England quite a bit , presumably in search of work so tracking him in the census's is proving difficult. Can I ask you another question please? If George joined up prior to 1914 eg to serve in the Boer War and stayed in the army to serve until the end of the Great War would his service number stay the same or are the numbers given in my first post WW1 numbers only? I ask this because I can only find entries for his wife in the 1901 census which may seem to suggest that at the time George was indeed in South Africa. He may of course left the Army after the Boer War and re enlisted for the Great War. I understand that many WW1 records were destroyed during WW2 but I was wondering if the ASC and Hussars have regimental museums were details may survive? As I live on a remote (ish) Scottish island most of my research has to be carried out via the internet as popping down to England for a weekend or so is not very practical but forums such as this are a true blessing. Many, many thanks Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Pabbay, From Free BMD: Births Dec 1878 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Birkbeck George Birley Sheffield 9c 526 ++++ Which probably makes his family per 1881 census: Household: Name Relation Marital Status Gender Age Birthplace Occupation Disability Peter BIRKBECK Head M Male 30 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Boiler Maker Fanny BIRKBECK Wife M Female 30 Lincoln, Lincoln, England Catherine BIRKBECK Daur Female 4 Sheffield, York, England Scholar George BIRKBECK Son Male 3 Sheffield, York, England Scholar Mary Ann BIRKBECK Daur Female 11 m St Clements Ipswich, Suffolk, England -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Source Information: Dwelling Newton Road Greens Cottages No 1 Census Place Ipswich St Clement, Suffolk, England Family History Library Film 1341453 Public Records Office Reference RG11 Piece / Folio 1874 / 108 Page Number 22 +++ 1891: (Not necessarily all are his family, but you can see mother/father and 13 years old George). Institution, Household or Vessel Name Age in 1891 Sex Registration District Household Transcript Standard image High quality image -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Household BIRKBECK, Catherine 14 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Elizabeth 2 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Fanny 40 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, George 13 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Henry 10 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Lily 8 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Mar 18 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Mary 11 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, May 10 F Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Peter 39 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Peter 5 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Thomas 45 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW Household BIRKBECK, Thomas 13 M Hartlepool VIEW VIEW VIEW +++ It looks as if the parents were living in West Hartlepool at the time of the 1901 census (the mother appears as 'Fancy' rather than 'Fanny'). Doesn't solve your military questions, but maybe helps on the family research? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Pabbay, Armed with the above, and applying to your memories of his picture, I am inclined to put my money on the driver ASC as being your man. The RE sapper was not a mounted rank (although the RE of course had mounted troops) The Hussars man is a George William, which does not match your George's name. Not definitive, but maybe a pointer for you? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 20 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Thanks a million for your replies Ian, I was favouring the ASC Driver myself so all I need to do now is figure out how to get at his service docs. The census stuff is great and although I already had some of it you have greatly reduced the odds as to this being the right family. I remember Granddad was often called Peter, probably more often than George and I seem to remember Lincoln being mentioned in the family. The census details showing a Thomas also fits, he was poosibly Peter the elders brother and the name was passed on to a son of George. What I did'nt realise was how many Great Aunts and Uncles I possibly had, as I cannot ever remember their names being mentioned and I certainly did not meet any of them or their offspring. Georges age also makes him elligible for the Boer War which is another suspicion of mine stemming from a passing remark that my Grandmother made when I was a kid. Maybe it stuck because I was fascinated by military history even as a wee sprog. Once again Ian many thanks, Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ororkep Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 There appears to be six George Birkbecks. but you can download any of them as they are all on the same sheet so it will only cost you £3.50. Regards Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 I was favouring the ASC Driver myself so all I need to do now is figure out how to get at his service docs. Pabbay, Just mention in case you are that new to this game - the WW1 army service records were 2/3rds destroyed in the Blitz. The remaining records are held on microfilm at the National Archives, Kew. Some, being burnt and water-washed, are barely ligible. So maybe a small chance his WW1 records survive. The Boer war records I think should still be around - again I believe held at Kew. Any chance his medals are still in the family? If he received the British War Medal and Victory medal his service number, rank and regt will be on the rim. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 20 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Hi again Ian, I was aware of the damaged and lost records but if and when I can get to Kew I'll have a trawl. Living on a remote Scottish island makes travelling a bit of a nightmare but I have tons of historical stuff to look up in the NA that I may take a week out sometime and have a nose around. No medals I'm afraid and I can't remember seeing any. Will his MIC show his unit details? Just a thought. Many thanks once again Ian Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Pabbay, MIC - may or may not mention a battalion, but as he was ASC his unit info is unlikely to be shown. That said, for Pnds 3.50 it is worth a download, if for nothing better thatn to add the document to your collection! If travel to Kew is a problem, how about paying a researcher? I expect that would be cheaper than travel costs/hotel expenses, etc. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Pabbay, MIC - may or may not mention a battalion, but as he was ASC his unit info is unlikely to be shown. That said, for Pnds 3.50 it is worth a download, if for nothing better thatn to add the document to your collection! If travel to Kew is a problem, how about paying a researcher? I expect that would be cheaper than travel costs/hotel expenses, etc. Ian Hi Ian, As you say the MICs for both of my Granddads would be a tangible connection with or without unit information. Paying a researcher is also an option but I have loads of other general and service stuff from across the generations to find and many of the answers across the board will be at Kew. There is also such a feeling of satisfaction that I feel when I track information down myself that I will probably combine a couple or so visits to Kew as part of a holiday some time in the near future. The NAs themselves sound fantastic anyway and for some time now I have had an ambition to visit Kew. Many thanks for your expert advice. Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 soldier papers might help Hussars obviously had horses and T4 in this context for the ASC means Aux Horse Transport Hi again, Looking for clarification again, I have noticed the rank of ASC Driver in other posts and have got the idea of a guy sat on a wagon, reins in his hands and controlling the horses. In other posts I have also come across references the the Aux Horse Transport hauling timber and other duties not necessary to do with wagons. What I'am seeking is the difference between a ASC driver and a driver in the AHT if any, or the scope of duties of the AHT. Any help greatly appreciated. Regards Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now