pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 10th Battalion Yorkshire Regt 1st July 1916 Hi there, I’ am a newcomer to this brilliant and informative sight and hope I can find some information regarding my two Grandfathers who were involved in WW1. In this post I’ am looking for info on Private Matthew Gardner, 28, Private 14170 in the10th Bn Yorkshire Regt (Green Howards). Matthew was born in Hartlepool and lived in West Hartlepool at the time of his death on 1st July 1916, the first day of the Somme. He is commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial but does not appear on either the Hartlepool or West Hartlepool War Memorials. Any info regarding his service in England and France would be gratefully appreciated. Pabbay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Pabbay, Checked Middlesbrough War Memorial just in case but he is not on there either. In case you aren't aware, 10th Yorkshires were in support for the atttack on Fricourt on July 1st 1916, your relative would have been encouraged "over the top" by Major Loudan Shand who won the VC for his actions that day. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Sorry dont have too much on this battalion on my site as yet, however I do have this small bit of Loudan Shand regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Thanks a million Bob for your prompt reply. As a kid I used to visit West Hartlepool regularly and often looked at the West Hartlepool war memorial searching for my Granddads name but to no avail. All we knew as kids was that Granddad was killed in WW1 and that he was probably blown up and the body not found. Looking at research carried out by others of the first day of the Somme this is probably a fact. Granddad and his life and fate were never discussed in the family and I only found his christian name by trawling through the CWG site. I found it strange and still do, that a man who was born and lived in West Hartlepool was not on either the West Hartlepool or Hartlepool war memorials and especially now that I know that the Green Howards actually recruited a battalion in West Hartlepool. However he is commemorated at Thiepval and one day I will visit the site and find him and say hello for myself and all of the remaining family. It would be great if I could locate the 10ths war diary or any other documentation regarding the Regiments movements in France. Any ideas? Many Thanks. Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Thanks for your prompt reply Arm, Your site is billiantly informative and I will wait with great anticipation for further info on the 10th Yorkshires in France. In the interim I will be looking for maps, war diaries and any thing else I can find that is relevant to Granddad. Many, many thanks. Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Pabbay, You should download his MIC from the NA, this would give you his medal entitlement and when he went to France. From there his movements until his death would be easier to map out. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 18 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Pabbay, You should download his MIC from the NA, this would give you his medal entitlement and when he went to France. From there his movements until his death would be easier to map out. Bob. Thanks again Bob, will have a try at hte NA. Cheers Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 19 November , 2006 Share Posted 19 November , 2006 The 62nd brigade war diary does not seem to give much info for 1st july of any detail. It mainly implies that the battalions of its brigade were mostly involved in carrying duites for the other two divisional bgdes who were in the forefroint of the attack. However it is obvious that the bde did come under some fire directly as given by the description of Loudon Shands death on the 1st. It states. " furnished carrying parties RE, 63rd and 64th brigades and a clearing company, behind 63rd brigade. These parties suffered heavy casualties crossing No Man's Land, coming under fire from M. gun fire from the direction of Fricourt ....[later on] ..The brigade relieved the 64th inf bde on night of 1st/2nd july 1916. dispositions were as follows:-10th Yorks R. on the right in CRUCIFIX trench........" Would that suggest he was probably killed in these crossings of No Man's Land? perhaps too much of a leap given the casulaties throughout the day. It would help obviously if we knew his company and then the war diary for the battalion would indicate in more detail what they got up to on 1st july. If you would like the brigade war diary for this day send me an e-mail and I will send you a copy, however it does not say much more than I have indicated above. regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 19 November , 2006 Share Posted 19 November , 2006 You could download this for £3.50 from the NA and it may give you the relevant info required etc regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Hi Arm, Scanning the web again today in the name of research (laid off from work until Feb, plenty of time on my hands, easily bored, not good for an ex RM) when I came across this web site "10th Battalion Green Howards, One Mans History". You may of already looked at it but I thought I'd let you know just in case. As the man in question survived the Great War he was present at all the relevant times for my research and fills in a lot of gaps. Now I am looking for trench maps et al to try and understand the movements and tactics better. Kind regards Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 I must be stupid, I have seen this website before and should have thought of it as a ref for you, apologises. regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 I must be stupid, I have seen this website before and should have thought of it as a ref for you, apologises. regards Arm Not to worry, as long as you have had a look at it. I'm going to take a couple of days off the web to try and digest all that I have learned over the last wee while (but really to go cold turkey before this fantastic research addiction really kicks in). Best regards Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n cherry Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 Welcome to the forums....hope you don't mind me throwing in a comment about Loos as no one else has yet and it was in the original post...... At Loos 10th Green Howards part of 62nd Brigade 21st Division sent into attack Hill 70 on 26th September 1915 with vague orders and very few maps.....suffered quite heavily in an abortive attack casualties including the CO and 2 i/c.....don't have to hand today total casualties but think I have them somewhere at home and will post them later. Certainly a baptism of fire for the 10th Green Howards......were you looking for anything in particular on Loos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 22 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 November , 2006 Welcome to the forums....hope you don't mind me throwing in a comment about Loos as no one else has yet and it was in the original post...... At Loos 10th Green Howards part of 62nd Brigade 21st Division sent into attack Hill 70 on 26th September 1915 with vague orders and very few maps.....suffered quite heavily in an abortive attack casualties including the CO and 2 i/c.....don't have to hand today total casualties but think I have them somewhere at home and will post them later. Certainly a baptism of fire for the 10th Green Howards......were you looking for anything in particular on Loos? Hi there, Thanks for your post, I'm trying to put together a service history of 10th Green Howards to try and put together a sort of time line of their history up to and including the firrt day of the Somme were my granddad was killed while serving with the Regiment. I've amassed some stuff about Loos but anything else would most useful. Your stuff sounds great. Any war diaries of the relevant units would be superb. Many thanks. Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Coulson Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 Few snippets from Green Howards in the Great War. 10th Yorkshires only landed at Boulogne on September 10th and after a few days in camp were pushed up for Loos. The CO Col Hadow was KIA on Sunday 26th and the battalion came out of the line on the night of the 27th. Casualties are given as over 330 all ranks, killed wounded and missing. Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 10th Yorkshires only landed at Boulogne on September 10th and after a few days in camp were pushed up for Loos. this was indicative of the whole of 21st division before Loos. it has to be one of the quickest advances from England to battle of any full division during the war. they simply had no idea of what they were in for! regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n cherry Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Casualties for the 10th Green Howards 26-9-1915 13 Officers and 286 Men actually the lowest unit figures in the Brigade total for that day of 73 Officers and 1423 Men. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 23 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Casualties for the 10th Green Howards 26-9-1915 13 Officers and 286 Men actually the lowest unit figures in the Brigade total for that day of 73 Officers and 1423 Men. Hi guys, Is'nt promotion quick in this mob, it took me 4 years to reach a/corporal in my last lot. I`ve spent some time today trying to put together a time line for 21 Div and the 10th Green Howards at Loos and noticed that 10 GH were attached to 15 Div at the one stage of the battle. "Sat 25th Sept 1915:- At 3.00pm 10th Yorks and 8th East Yorks were ordered to reinforce units of 15 Div. The rest of 21 Divs reserves arrived at 7.30pm and were sent to reinforce the line between Hill 70 and Puit 14". This shows that the first two Regiments were over 4 hours ahead of the rest of 21 Div in arriving at the front or support lines. Then, "Sunday 26th Sept 1915:- 45 Bde and 62 Bde ordered to take Hill 70 with 45 Bde attacking from the West and 62 bde attacking from the North West (which fits in with the positions 62 were sent to the previous evening). When the 45th Div were finally beaten back from the crest of Hill 70 the follow up regiments 10GH and 12 N Fus. of 62 Bde went on to suffer the same fate. Is this a case of composite Divisions being made up or 10GH and 12N Fus being attached to another intact Div? My point is should I be looking for 45 Divs war diary rather than 62 Divs for an account of this action? Many Thanks Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 23 November , 2006 Share Posted 23 November , 2006 Will send you an e-mail Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendav2001 Posted 20 March , 2008 Share Posted 20 March , 2008 he is listed for a kia report in the 'northern daily mail', west hartlepool, 15 july 1916. grendav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grendav2001 Posted 20 March , 2008 Share Posted 20 March , 2008 northern daily mail west hartlepool saturday 15 july 1916 local casualties news received yesterday and today show that two brothers, pte matthew gardner, age 28, and pte david gardner, age 25, both of the yorkshire regiment, sons of mr s a gardner, 3 slater street, west hartlepool, were killed in action between the 1st and 3rd of july. messages conveying the sympathy of the king and queen have been received. pte matthew gardner was married and lived at 6 briar street, west hartlepool. he and david previously worked at the same shipyard and both joined the army on 03 september 1914. they had two older brothers in the army. grendav Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tartan_Terrier Posted 20 November , 2008 Share Posted 20 November , 2008 Does anyone know of anywhere I can read more about the 10th Battalion in general and especially at Loos? My great-grandfather was wounded there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 20 November , 2008 Share Posted 20 November , 2008 Not a cheap read but you could try this from N&M. Not read it myself but it may have something on the 10th Battn. http://www.naval-military-press.com/green-...r-pr-20868.html Regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n cherry Posted 20 November , 2008 Share Posted 20 November , 2008 Tartan Terror..... At the risk of getting my head shot off......the following would probably be helpful in your quest for information on Loos......BTW in no particular order of merit (I hope)...... The 1915 Offical History Loos 1915 Most Unfavourable Ground Loos Hill 70 Loos Hohenzollern Redoubt The Battle of Loos Loos The Unwanted Battle I'm sure other forum members willl comment on my list! Then of course battalion and brigade war diaries at the NA..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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