Perentage of British War Dead

[Joan and Terry]

Not sure if this is the right place,if not then maybe someone will offer a suggestion.We stayed at Avril's Place in September/October this year and on the Sunday evening listened to a talk given by Andrew Robertshaw to a group of young Canadians.During the talk,which we found interesting Andy did say the total British deaths were 13.5%.I wanted to ask him afterwards if the figure was for the whole of the British Forces or just those involved in the actual fighting,by that I mean,there were thousands of people in the forces that were never near any fighting.The point is I never did get a chance to ask the question,and wonder if there is anyone that can shed more light on the percentage,we have always thought the actual figure to be higher than 13.5%

By the way Andy,should you happen to read this,I was the ex WRAF who castigated you for the remarks you made about WAAF's,they were not all like that!

Joan

[Clive Maier]

The figure I have – it is based on statistics given in The World War I Databook – is 12.3 percent of those mobilised. So that is everybody.

[ian turner]

I seem to remember a figure of something like one in four of those who saw active service?

Ian

[Gibbo]

The figures quoted may all be correct depending on the basis. My reading of the World War I Databook is that 12.3% is of all men mobilised in all the services. 13.5% could therefore be of all men mobilised in the army. Richard Holmes says in Tommy (pp. 13-4) that 4m British & Empire troops served on the Western Front of whom 750,000 died. As some of the 4m would have been in rear areas throughout the war, one in four might be correct for front line troops killed on the Western Front.

[paul guthrie]

I think British deaths were about 750000, add empire and it's very near a million.

[Muerrisch]

As the crudest of guides, an infantry battalion on the Western Front from Mons to the Victory lost, dead, all causes, about one in five of all men who passed through its books. [2nd RWF as an example, started with 1100, saw another 4000 on its books, lost dead over a thousand.] Another one in five was severely wounded, and another wounded. Two would be unscathed although unlikely to be in the same unit at the end.

This figure works for current disasters etc: whether a Tsunami, an earthquake or a terrorists bomb, if 10 are dead, 20 will be wounded. More or less.

[Malcolm]

In perspective from BBC History of Scotland -

On 7th August, 1914, Lord Kitchener, the war minister, began a mass recruiting campaign, three days after Britain declared war on Germany. Kitchener's appeal called for men aged between 19 and 30 to join the British Army. At first an average of 33,000 men were joining up each day but this was still not enough, and three weeks later Kitchener raised the recruiting age to 35. By the middle of September over 500,000 men had volunteered their services. By the end of 1915 some two million men had volunteered their services, including the entire Hearts first team squad who joined en masse leading supporters to the recruiting office. By the war's end a total of 147,609 Scots had been killed, a fifth of Britain's dead from a country that made up only 10% of its population.

Aye

Malcolm

[Joan and Terry]

In perspective from BBC History of Scotland -

On 7th August, 1914, Lord Kitchener, the war minister, began a mass recruiting campaign, three days after Britain declared war on Germany. Kitchener's appeal called for men aged between 19 and 30 to join the British Army. At first an average of 33,000 men were joining up each day but this was still not enough, and three weeks later Kitchener raised the recruiting age to 35. By the middle of September over 500,000 men had volunteered their services. By the end of 1915 some two million men had volunteered their services, including the entire Hearts first team squad who joined en masse leading supporters to the recruiting office. By the war's end a total of 147,609 Scots had been killed, a fifth of Britain's dead from a country that made up only 10% of its population.

Aye

Malcolm

That has left me speechless,I knew that Scotland had provided a large amount soldiers,but I was totally unaware of the losses suffered percentage wise,please forgive my ignorance.

Joan

[roel22]

Any ideas why the Scottish losses were so relatively high?

[Malcolm]

You have to remember for the Battle of Loos, 36 Battalionsof the 72 first phase attacking Battalions were Scottish, 24 New Army Battalions and 12 in the Regular Army Battalions.

At the Somme, 60 Scottish Battalions were engaged sometime between July and November, some several times.

At Arras in 1917, 44 Battalions of 120 attacking were Scottish not including the Canadian Scottish.

That's why there are no thankful villages in Scotland and the loss of a generation is not a myth.

Aye

Malcolm

[djcrtoye]

Thats why the Western Isles has such a low populatiion in comparison to other parts of mainland Scotland.

[tintin1689]

As a percentage of enlistees only Serbia lost a higher percentage than Scotland of any nation in the Great War

Another reason is that the Volunteers, and their successors the Territorials were always more popular (and thus a higher proportion of the population) in Scotland than England

[Clive Maier]

I have a figure from somewhere, and I no longer know where, that 80 percent of British mobilised served overseas. So applying that to The World War I Databook figures and neglecting the effect of deaths among those who remained on home soil, the proportion killed becomes 15.4 percent of those who went abroad. That’s a one in six and a half chance of death. The chance of death, receiving a wound or being taken prisoner was just 1 in 1.8 for those who went abroad. Horrifying odds.

For the war as a whole, 11.8 percent of the 67,752,725 mobilised were killed, and 56.2 percent were killed, wounded or taken prisoner. It was more likely than not, in other words.

[Joan and Terry]

I have a figure from somewhere, and I no longer know where, that 80 percent of British mobilised served overseas. So applying that to The World War I Databook figures and neglecting the effect of deaths among those who remained on home soil, the proportion killed becomes 15.4 percent of those who went abroad. That’s a one in six and a half chance of death. The chance of death, receiving a wound or being taken prisoner was just 1 in 1.8 for those who went abroad. Horrifying odds.

For the war as a whole, 11.8 percent of the 67,752,725 mobilised were killed, and 56.2 percent were killed, wounded or taken prisoner. It was more likely than not, in other words.

First of thanks to everyone who added their thoughts to my question.With regards to 80 percent served overseas,I was unaware the figure was that low,to have 20 percent that never went overseas seems a high amount,when conscription came early in 1916 because of a shortfall in men,does anyone have an idea what the 20 percent were doing?

regards

Joan