Location of Bois en Hache

[Guest smimbin]

I have a relative by the name of John Cunningham who died from his wounds after winning a VC at Bois en Hache.I intend to visit his grave at Barlin in April as it will be the 90th anniversary of his death but can't for the life of me find much about the location of Bois en Hache itself.If anyone could help or recommend a book with info on Bois en Hache I would be grateful since as well as paying my respects at his grave I should like to see where he fought.

[IanA]

If you draw a line heading north-west out of Givenchy and another heading north-east out of Souchez then where they intersect is the location of the Bois en Hache. I am not familiar with that immediate area but on modern maps it appears to still exist, though it may have suffered with the building of the A26 which forms its south-west rim and Angres is getting mighty close!

Hope this helps,

Ian

[Guest smimbin]

I have a relative by the name of John Cunningham who died from his wounds after winning a VC at Bois en Hache.I intend to visit his grave at Barlin in April as it will be the 90th anniversary of his death but can't for the life of me find much about the location of Bois en Hache itself.If anyone could help or recommend a book with info on Bois en Hache I would be grateful since as well as paying my respects at his grave I should like to see where he fought.

Cheers for that.Oddly I actually found a trench map in Stanfords & managed to locate Bois en Hache.It appears to have been a wood.It just doesn't appear to be mentioned in any books I have flicked through.I intend to pop down to the Imperial War Museum this week anyway so maybe they will have some info that might help me.Thanks again.

[IanA]

Sorry, 'bois' is French for 'wood'

[IanA]

Silly silly me....

I just looked up John Cunningham and discovered that he was in the 2nd Leinsters so you actually have a wonderful book to read and your relative is mentioned in it. It is 'Stand To' by Captain F.C. Hitchcock, M.C. It has been re-printed by Naval & Military Press and you should read it from cover to cover. In my opinion it is one of the best books to come out of the Great War.

On 19th October, 1916 Hitchcock says: "One of my Lewis guns jammed very badly with Pte Rolands, and I went down to the HQ Lewis Gunners, and got Corpl Cunningham to come to the rescue. Cunningham was a fine NCO, and won the Victoria Cross six months later in our attack on Vimy Ridge, but the poor fellow never lived to receive it, as he died of wounds. He was surrounded by the enemy when his Lewis gun jammed. Using it as a great bludgeon he felled about six Huns and the remainder fled before him as he followed them up with bombs. He was mortally wounded in saving what the official wording of his exploit stated 'a critical situation'."

Do get this book!!

[Guest smimbin]

Sorry, 'bois' is French for 'wood'

Cheers again - I shall definitely seek the book.Many years ago my dad saw a press article mentioning that John's VC was put up for auction & tried to stop the auction as the medal didn't belong to the seller.Sadly however it went missing at that point.We had always hoped to send the medal to a small museum dedicated to VC winners from Thurles but that no longer seems feasible.Anyway - thanks again for your help which has been invaluable.

[Guest smimbin]

I did get the book & am now in the process of reading it.Rather maddeningly Hitchcock appears to have been on leave during the fight at Bois-en-Hache.I also obtained a book called Vimy Ridge by Nigel Cave which - equally maddeningly makes no reference to Bois-en-Hache or to the presence of the Leinsters.What 'Stand To' does offer however is a glimpse into the life & battles in which the Leinsters engaged so I am now in the process of seeking Cunningham's service record in order to establish when he actually went to France & therefore what other battles he may have engaged in.I think I found Bois-en-Hache using Google Earth & it appears to be fairly untouched.Thanks again for the tip.

Silly silly me....

I just looked up John Cunningham and discovered that he was in the 2nd Leinsters so you actually have a wonderful book to read and your relative is mentioned in it. It is 'Stand To' by Captain F.C. Hitchcock, M.C. It has been re-printed by Naval & Military Press and you should read it from cover to cover. In my opinion it is one of the best books to come out of the Great War.

On 19th October, 1916 Hitchcock says: "One of my Lewis guns jammed very badly with Pte Rolands, and I went down to the HQ Lewis Gunners, and got Corpl Cunningham to come to the rescue. Cunningham was a fine NCO, and won the Victoria Cross six months later in our attack on Vimy Ridge, but the poor fellow never lived to receive it, as he died of wounds. He was surrounded by the enemy when his Lewis gun jammed. Using it as a great bludgeon he felled about six Huns and the remainder fled before him as he followed them up with bombs. He was mortally wounded in saving what the official wording of his exploit stated 'a critical situation'."

Do get this book!!

[IanA]

I am so glad you got a copy of the book - with its personal insights and anecdotes it is 100 times better than reading a war diary and you do get an axcellent picture of the spirit of the battalion. The Cave book will give you lots of background information and make things much more interesting when you are actually on the ground. It does contain an old map on page 140 which shows the positions of the trenches through Bois en Hache and the Bois de Givenchy.

Ian

[ggbarber]

Ian,

My great uncle, G/2981 Charles Frederick Griffiths, died of wounds on 12.4.1917 at Bois en Hache, the day (and place) John Cunningham won his VC. He was a private in the Royal Sussex Regiment, 9th Battalion. I am looking for anything that describes what happened that day and why. Would you recommend that book "Stand To" or do you know of other sources more relevent to the Royal Sussex Regiment?

[IanA]

ggbarber,

Have you got a copy of the war diary, available for download on-line?

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...esultcount=2276

The 9th Royal Sussex get a few mentions in 'Stand To' from 1915 onwards but, as has been remarked already in this thread, Hitchcock was ill during April, 1917 so there is no record of this time. The book is a classic and reasonably priced as a reprint by Naval & Military Press so I should read it anyway.

Cheers,

Ian

[ggbarber]

Thanks Ian. That was a great help. I dowloaded the document and there was a very detailed description of the action that took place on 12 April 1917.

It descibed a major attack which began at 5:00am "in a blinding snowstorm over ground full of large shell holes and churned into a sea of mud", with 60 casualties almost immediatley from machine gun fire. Total casualties for the day were Officers: 5 killed, 4 wounded. Other Ranks:40 killed, 63 wounded, 4 died of wounds (of which one would have been Fred Griffiths).

Thanks once again.

Regards

Geoff

[IanA]

I'm very pleased to have been able to help.

Cheers,

Ian

[ggbarber]

I have also located Bois en Hache on an old trench map, so just for the record it is at reference S2b on Sheet 36c.

The Google Earth Coordinates are: 50 24 07.15 N, 2 45 06.21 E.

The wood (Bois) is still there almost exactly as shown on the old map.

According to the 9th Bn Royal Sussex Regiment diary, the attack on 12.4.1917 took place at map references S2b (the wood) and M32d (adjacent to the wood).

The trench map I found doesn't show much in the way of trenches, so can't say in which direction the attack was made.

Regards

Geoff

[ggbarber]

I found a trench map showing trenches in Bois en Hache in February 1917.

http://lt1.mcmaster.ca/ww1/wrz4mp.php?grid..._id=42&view

You need to zoom in quite a bit but look for map reference S2b. It is on the right hand edge of the map about half way up.

To see a clearer view of the actual wood, check one of the later trench maps (June or July 1917) where there are no trenches marked (probably the front line got pushed back by then and was no longer through the wood).

Regards

Geoff

[Barry Woodhams]

Ian,

My great uncle, G/2981 Charles Frederick Griffiths, died of wounds on 12.4.1917 at Bois en Hache, the day (and place) John Cunningham won his VC. He was a private in the Royal Sussex Regiment, 9th Battalion. I am looking for anything that describes what happened that day and why. Would you recommend that book "Stand To" or do you know of other sources more relevant to the Royal Sussex Regiment?

Hello very interested in the battle of Bois En Hache and the royal Sussex reg 9 th Batt as this was the reg my great uncle was in when he was killed at the said battle Sargant Thomas Henry Woodhams died on 13 apr 1917 so if you have any info at all please get in touch.

Vimy Ridge by Alexander Turner a osprey book does mention the battle a bit.

[ggbarber]

Barry,

I highly recommend the war diary mentioned in IanA's posting on 13/8. It has about two pages dedicated to the action on 12 & 13/4/1917. Only officers names are mentioned so your uncle isn't, but the description of the battle is very good. It cost me GBP3.50 to download (from the National Archives) but was worth it.

I don't have much more than what I have already posted. My uncle is buried in Chocques cemetery and I have the complete listing of burials there if that is of interest. I would love to go there one day to visit, but is a long way from Australia!

The facsinating thing re: Bois en Hache is that it survives today in almost exactly the same shape as on the 1917 trench map, and using Google Earth, you can make out the line of the old German trench line. Another place for me to visit in the future. The word Hache means axe in French, so I wonder if the wood was/is a communal wood to allow people to collect firewood or something (??).

If you get to Chocques or Bois en Hache before me I would love to see some photos.

Keep in touch.

Regards

Geoff

PS Not sure how we exchange email addresses but happy to do so.

Hello very interested in the battle of Bois En Hache and the royal Sussex reg 9 th Batt as this was the reg my great uncle was in when he was killed at the said battle Sargant Thomas Henry Woodhams died on 13 apr 1917 so if you have any info at all please get in touch.

Vimy Ridge by Alexander Turner a osprey book does mention the battle a bit.

[Barry Woodhams]

Barry,

I highly recommend the war diary mentioned in IanA's posting on 13/8. It has about two pages dedicated to the action on 12 & 13/4/1917. Only officers names are mentioned so your uncle isn't, but the description of the battle is very good. It cost me GBP3.50 to download (from the National Archives) but was worth it.

I don't have much more than what I have already posted. My uncle is buried in Chocques cemetery and I have the complete listing of burials there if that is of interest. I would love to go there one day to visit, but is a long way from Australia!

The facsinating thing re: Bois en Hache is that it survives today in almost exactly the same shape as on the 1917 trench map, and using Google Earth, you can make out the line of the old German trench line. Another place for me to visit in the future. The word Hache means axe in French, so I wonder if the wood was/is a communal wood to allow people to collect firewood or something (??).

If you get to Chocques or Bois en Hache before me I would love to see some photos.

Keep in touch.

Regards

Geoff

PS Not sure how we exchange email addresses but happy to do so.

Thanks Geoff

found the war diary very interesting.I would also love to visit the battle field one day hopefully not to long in the future.

It would be great if you could send me the listings of burials if possible but as far as i know my great uncles body was never found although in a letter to his parents a offices said he was buried with his comrades so its a bit of a mystery.

I would love to talk with u some time on e/mail if you want?

my addy is icarusxx@hotmail.co.uk

all the best Barry

[ggbarber]

Just for the record, I notice that Bois en Hache is now called "Bois Soil, Angres, France" on Google maps.

I will be visiting it in May this year with other members of my family.

Regards

Geoff

I have also located Bois en Hache on an old trench map, so just for the record it is at reference S2b on Sheet 36c.

The Google Earth Coordinates are: 50 24 07.15 N, 2 45 06.21 E.

The wood (Bois) is still there almost exactly as shown on the old map.

According to the 9th Bn Royal Sussex Regiment diary, the attack on 12.4.1917 took place at map references S2b (the wood) and M32d (adjacent to the wood).

The trench map I found doesn't show much in the way of trenches, so can't say in which direction the attack was made.

Regards

Geoff

[ggbarber]

I visited Bois en Hache on 2 May 2012 and discovered that the woods have remained virtually untouched since the war (it is privately owned land). The craters, tumbled earth and trench lines are all clearly visible. It was a moving experience to see all this.

The land was fairly flat and the Allied and German trenches quite close, so it is understandable that so many men were lost in the first 10 minutes from machine gun fire in the attack on 12 April 1917.

The book "Arras" by Peter Barton (who I coincidentally met at a WW1 archaeological site during my visit) states that the battle at Bois en Hache was essentially a mopping up operation after most of Vimy Ridge had already fallen to the Allies.

Regards

Geoff Barber

Just for the record, I notice that Bois en Hache is now called "Bois Soil, Angres, France" on Google maps.

I will be visiting it in May this year with other members of my family.

Regards

Geoff

[nigelcave]

I would also recommend that you read Jack Sheldon's The German Army at Vimy Ridge', which includes more informaton on the northern-most end of the April 1917 battlefield than the average book on 'Vimy'; the Battleground we did together on Vimy 1917 has in its tour section much more on the German side of the line, including a bit on Givenchy Wood (which is open to the public, at least along the main routes). Always good to see things from the other side of the wire's perspective.

[ggbarber]

Thanks Nigel.

Little is ever mentioned of the attack on Bois en Hache on 12 Apr 1917, so for the record I have transcribed the Royal Sussex Regiment war diary below:

WarDiary 9th Battalion Royal Sussex Regiment

Attackon BOIS-en-HACHE - 12 April 1917

1/4/17 Bn in line in Left Sub-sectionSouchez. Relieved on night 1st & 2nd by 2 Coys 8th Bn. The BUFFS. Bn movedto Divisional Reserve in billets at Fosse 10.

2/4/17 Major M. CAMPBELL-JOHNSTONstruck off strength & attached to HQ 3rd Army

2/4/17 to 10/4/17 Bn trained under Capt T FOSTER for attackordered for 10th. Lt Col Hill, M.C. returned from leave 10/11/17. Attackpostponed till 12/4/17

11/4/17 Bn took over position of front from 8th Baffson evening of 11th.

12/4/17 Attack on BOIS-en-HACHE (S2b & M32d Sheet36c) The attack was carried out in conjunction with the 2nd Leinsters on ourright, & in cooperation with an attack by the Canadian Corps. Theobjectives were the German 1st & 2nd line, which meant the capture of hiscommanding position in the Bois-en-Hache. "A" Coy on the left and "B" Coy onthe right were detached to take the 2nd line, & hold it as a line ofobservation. "C" Coy was detailed "mop up", consolidate & hold as line ofresistance the enemy front line. "D" Coy was held in reserve. The attack wastimed for 5am on the 12th, just before dawn. All Companies moved into positionof assembly without delay or casualty by 1am & Tea & Rum were issued tothe men. The difficult operation of forming up on the proper alignment wascarried out under cover of a blizzard 5 mins before zero.

In the attack heavy casualtieswere at once sustained from M.G. fire. The first objective was at once capturedwith about 60 casualties, including 3 officers of "B" Coy, 1 of "A" Coy & 1of "C" Coy. About 6 Germans who fought were bayonetted, the remainder werecaptured or ran away. At 5:10am the advance continued. "A" Coy reached alltheir objectives & established a line of posts 80 yds in advance of Germanfront line. In this advance "A" & "B" & "C" Coys each lost an officer.Three attempts at a Bombing attack were made but were driven off. A counterattack against the last one resulted in the capture of 2 prisoners. "B" Coy inspite of the loss of all their officers reached their objective in smallparties, one in touch with "A" Coy & 1 in touch with 2nd Leinsters. 12 menwere found killed 20 yds in front of the objective. The dug-outs in the frontline were picquetted, 150 yds of the line was wired by Lt Lloyd Davis & aparty of 129 Field Co. R.E. with 15 men of D Coy. A Vickers Gun was successfullygot into position in the centre of this line, & a Stokes Gun with 190rounds was carried to a position on the left of the enemy front line. Theammunition was carried by men of D Coy. During the day "A" Coy got considerableshelling, but the casualties were very few.

The attack took place in ablinding snow storm & over ground full of large shell holes & churnedinto a sea of mud by bad weather and heavy shelling.

13/4/17 The night of 12th/13thwas comparatively quiet, but the usual darkness & heaviness of the groundmade communication difficult. The morning of the 13th was quiet except forshelling by single guns. At 1pm it was seen that the enemy was shelling his ownline & the village of ANGRES. Consequently at 1.45pm patrols were sent outunder 2/LT. P. ATTWOOD & 2/LT H. SAXON 500 yds from the German 2nd line& reported that enemy had withdrawn except for a M.G. & two snipers whowere firing. Bn H.Q. was established in the German front line by 4 o'clock. Bythis time our patrol had Bombed the enemy out of FOSSE 6. An outpost line wasestablished by D Coy on the SOUCHER River & before dark a patrol under 2/LTR. BURNIER reached CALVERY Trench in S.3.a & BUQUET MILL at S.3.a 55.90.The outpost line was held through the night & by 7 a.m. the Bn was relievedby 12th Bn Royal Fusiliers

19 Prisoners were captured &a large number of German dead were found in the captured trenches. Ourcasualties were

Officers 5 killed – 4 wounded.O.R. Killed 40 Wounded 63

Died of Wounds – O.R. 4 Total – all ranks 116

Officers in Action

C.O. Lt Col. M.V.B. HILLM.C. 2nd-in-C. Capt T. FOSTER Adjt Lt H.C. COLEMAN

Sigs. Off 2/LT P. ATTWOOD Intn Officer 2/LT R. BURNIER Bomb Off. 2/LT G.C. MOLE

"A" Coy

CAPT. C.E. GOAD

LT W.D. CHEPMELL (killed)

2/LT K.F.F. WARD (wounded)

2/LT E.R. HOLDEN (wounded)

"B" Co

CAPT G.M. SHACKEL (wounded)

LT W.B. SHAW (killed)

2/LT G.M.W. PROWSE (killed)

2/LT A. CARTER (killed)

"C" Co

2/LT B.H. VIDLER (killed)

2/LT H. SAXON

2/LT H.G. WELHAM

2/LT W.R. CHITTENDEN (wounded)

"D" Co

2/LT J.E. PAUL

2/LT R.W. ROMSBEY

2/LT A. JACKSON

CSM BARNARD, "A" Co was killed

14/4/17 Bn moved on relief toMARQUEFFLES FARM. Weather was still bad.

17/4/14 BN marched to HESINGNEULinto billets.

18/4/14 Bn marched to AUCHEL& were billeted

19/4/14 Bn marched to TrainingArea & were billeted at ESTREE BLANCHE

20/4/17Bn rested & reorganised. …………

[John Fanning]

QUOTE (smimbin @ Nov 15 2006, 08:57 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have a relative by the name of John Cunningham who died from his wounds after winning a VC at Bois en Hache.I intend to visit his grave at Barlin in April as it will be the 90th anniversary of his death but can't for the life of me find much about the location of Bois en Hache itself.If anyone could help or recommend a book with info on Bois en Hache I would be grateful since as well as paying my respects at his grave I should like to see where he fought.

Cheers for that.Oddly I actually found a trench map in Stanfords & managed to locate Bois en Hache.It appears to have been a wood.It just doesn't appear to be mentioned in any books I have flicked through.I intend to pop down to the Imperial War Museum this week anyway so maybe they will have some info that might help me.Thanks again.

Hello. I have not visited this forum for several years. Are you a relative of JC? I am myself on my father's side? Would love to know your connection to him..

[brunof62]

Hello

My name is Bruno, I was born in Angres and " le bois en hache" was a playground when I was a child , I have today 56 years old and I am interested in the history of my village during the World War . I was able to find various pictures street of my town in 1915/1916/1917. Here are some views of " Cité des Ecoles" , a mining town located just opposite the " Bois en Hache"....

to be continued

Best regards

Bruno

[brunof62]

The Souchez Road , at right is the Bois Carré ,on the hill at left is the Givenchy wood ,"Bois de Givenchy" ....,the small bilding is "le Cabaret du Tonkin" look the map ....To be continued ...

Bruno

[brunof62]

The map of "bois en hache"