Julie Kelly Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 I wonder if someone could guide me on this one. I have a relative on my husband's side called Alfred John Potter service number 18112 9th Btn. East Surrey Regiment who died at the age of 23 on 30/08/1916. He was sent back to Swansea and died of his injuries and his father had his body sent to the family in Godstone Surrey. Could anyone tell me where he was likely to have sustained his injuries i.e. where his regiment was serving around this date. Any help much appreciated. Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Julie The 9th East Surreys were part of 55 Brigade, 18th (Eastern) Division,and were in the Battle of the Somme from 1 July 1916 and which lasted into November 1916. You say that your subject died in Swansea on 30/8/1916,so he could have been in any of the actions from 1 July. I see that there is a memorial to the 18th(Eastern)Division at Thiepval,the Division took the village after heavy losses,so it would seem highly likely that your subject could have been wounded in that action. Best wishes Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Kelly Posted 12 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Hello Sotonmate, Thanks very much for that information, much appreciated. Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Julie Another fact for your use. The Battalion's War Diary is WO95/2215,covering the period from August 1915 to March 1919, and is kept in the National Archives at Kew. You would have to visit to reads it but there just might be some kind soul on this Forum who has a copy. Watch this space ! Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sotonmate Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Julie Finally, for tonight,you may wish to download a copy of your subject's medal index card from the national Archives site. It costs 3 pounds 50. Go to: www.nationalarchives.gov.uk click on search archives and then on catalogue in the scroll down,next page erase "type ref here"in box on left and enter WO372/16. Next page click on "request this".Next page click on GO on download image choice. Wait for next page a few seconds. Enter details of soldier and dates 01/08/1914 to 31/12/1918 and search. The next page is the detail of your soldier.If you want the copy complete the shopping process. Sotonmate Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Mackenzie Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Julie. I am not sure where you are but, if you are in the Croydon area, there is a copy of the East Surrey Official History in Croydon Library (go to the research room on the top floor). The staff are very helpful and the book is quite a good read and well laid out. Good luck. Neil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 I wonder if someone could guide me on this one. I have a relative on my husband's side called Alfred John Potter service number 18112 9th Btn. East Surrey Regiment who died at the age of 23 on 30/08/1916. He was sent back to Swansea and died of his injuries and his father had his body sent to the family in Godstone Surrey. Could anyone tell me where he was likely to have sustained his injuries i.e. where his regiment was serving around this date. Any help much appreciated. Julie Julie, I have a copy of the East Surrey Regimental History. There are perhaps five possibilities. 13 August 1916 - Digging trenches at Arrow Head Copse. Men - 2 killed and 12 wounded 14 & 15 August 1916 - More trench digging. Men - 7 wounded 16 August 1916 - Attack on strongpoint Guillemont. Men - 31 killed, 116 wounded and 29 missing 18 August 1916 - Trenches in rear of Queens - Men 3 killed and 8 wounded 22 August 1916 - Relief of 24th Division and march back to the Citadel - Men 1 killed and 5 wounded They were then involved in attack near Delville Wood on 31st August 1916. It could have happened before 13th August 1916. The action on 16 August 1916 is described in detail but with no men's names. Hope this helps, Ray Hooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter (SA) Posted 19 February , 2007 Share Posted 19 February , 2007 Hi Ray A request about the 9th from South Africa. I wonder whether your Regimental History of the 9th East Surrey Regiment gives any details of actions / events that took place on 24 July 1917 in the Hill 60 / Larchwood area. My grandmother's brother Capt George Stephen Pirie was killed on 24 July 1917 at Larchwood, just south of Hill 60 on the Ypres - Comines railway line. He served as RAMC Doctor to the 9th East Surreys between 1 Dec 1915 - 05 Jan 1916 and subsequently from 13 March 1917 until his death. A letter we have speculates that his Casualty Clearing Station might have sustained a direct hit. I have his diary, which refers to a quite a few officers and men over the periods above, and can look up his refrences to some names if anyone is interested. Much appreciated Peter (SA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julie Kelly Posted 20 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 20 February , 2007 Hi Neil, Thanks for that Julie. Hello Ray, Thanks for that Julie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 20 February , 2007 Share Posted 20 February , 2007 Peter, Pirie has an officers service file at the NA. I have found that around 50% have some mention of how the officer died. WO 339/16259 PIRIE G S, Capt 1914-1919 Obviously not easy to look up from your location, however. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 20 February , 2007 Share Posted 20 February , 2007 Hi Ray A request about the 9th from South Africa. I wonder whether your Regimental History of the 9th East Surrey Regiment gives any details of actions / events that took place on 24 July 1917 in the Hill 60 / Larchwood area. My grandmother's brother Capt George Stephen Pirie was killed on 24 July 1917 at Larchwood, just south of Hill 60 on the Ypres - Comines railway line. He served as RAMC Doctor to the 9th East Surreys between 1 Dec 1915 - 05 Jan 1916 and subsequently from 13 March 1917 until his death. A letter we have speculates that his Casualty Clearing Station might have sustained a direct hit. I have his diary, which refers to a quite a few officers and men over the periods above, and can look up his refrences to some names if anyone is interested. Much appreciated Peter (SA) Peter(SA), I'm sorry but I only have chapter 10 which ends in March 1917. I got this section from The Queen's Royal Surrey Regimental Museum, Clandon Park, Guildford, Surrey GU4 7RQ UK Tel: 01483 223419 Hope this helps, Best wishes, Ray Hooper Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter (SA) Posted 28 March , 2007 Share Posted 28 March , 2007 Hi Ray Hooper and Stebie9173 – Many many thanks for your replies and for the information you have provided. Its great to know that Capt. Pirie has an officer’s service file at the NA (WO 339/16259 PIRIE G S, Capt 1914-1919). I had for some reason assumed that RAMC Officers’ service records formed part of the ‘burned records’ that had been destroyed in WWII. As you’ve noted, accessing WWI records in the UK from South Africa is the first problem. Followed by a second: the current exchange rate: one Pound costs us 14.26 SA Rands! May I ask whether you are in a position to refer me somewhere / guide me on any of the following practical issues: 1. What a ‘lookup’ service is likely to cost (in Pounds); 2. How a typical service provider quotes / charges; 3. What a realistic fee range for the service is at present; 4. What a service provider is permitted by NA to do (to photocopy / to photograph / to transcribe ?); 5. What information I should ask for / would be likely to receive. Thanks again, Peter (SA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJames Posted 29 March , 2007 Share Posted 29 March , 2007 Hi Peter(SA) From The History of the East Surrey Regiment vol III p75 At 7 p.m. the same evening ( -the 21st- ) C and D Companies took over the line held by the support and reserve companies of the 8th Battn. Yorkshire Regt. about the village of Zwarteleen. On the 22nd July, Battalion Headquarters and A and B Companies marched up to these trenches via Hill 60; while C and D went forward to the front line trench known as Image Crescent, which lay about a furlong to the north of Klein Zillebeke. The enemy's artillery was very active during the three days which the battalion spent in these trenches, and three officers were killed (Captain G.S. Pirie, R.A.M.C.,Lieut. J.A. Picton,M.C., and 2nd Lieut. P.Y. Bogue), and two wounded (2nd Lieuts. H.L.B. Ellis and W.D. Sadler). The casualities in other ranks were 3 killed and 19 wounded. In the death of Captain Pirie the Battalion sustained a severe loss. He had been attatched to it almost continuously as Medical Officer since its early days and had done gallant service with it in the Battles of the Somme, 1916. Although this seems a little incongrous since you say he wasn't with them between 5th Jan 1916 and 13th March 1917. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter (SA) Posted 10 April , 2007 Share Posted 10 April , 2007 Hi again Ken and Ray and Steve - Many thanks for your responses and your invaluable information. Your time and effort is greatly appreciated. To get the necessary done, I will now nicely ask a cousin who lives in London ! Capt Pirie's diary corresponds closely with Ken's reference to Vol III p75 of the 'History of the East Surrey Regiment' for the period 22 - 24 July 1917 in that the very last entry of 21.07.1917 reads thus: Saturday 21.7.1917: "We only marched off at 8 a.m. this morning as there was only four miles to do. We came via Renninghelst and Ouderdom and are back at our old camp. I am not looking forward to going into the line tomorrow night. It's a beast of an area. C and D Coys. go up tonight and A and B and H.Q. Coys. to-morrow night. I hear Lt. Royal has been invalided out of the Army with consumption. Jolly rotten luck." And his diary does seem to contradict the 'History' at Vol III at p75 in that: On 05.01.1917 he writes: "... and I am to go to the 74th Field Ambulance for duty. I have now been just short of thirteen months with this Regiment, the 9th East Surreys and have grown to be one of them and am most downhearted at leaving them for I'll miss Hilton, Tetley, Whiteman and Clark badly ..." On 13.03.1917 he writes: "This evening I got notification from the A.D.M.S. to rejoin the E. Surreys tomorrow and Lt. Hartley MC who is with them was to rejoin the 74th F.Amb. I must say I don't regret having spent these nine week with the Ambulance because I have got an insight now of its working ..." Many thanks again to you all. Kind regards Peter (SA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJames Posted 11 April , 2007 Share Posted 11 April , 2007 Hi Peter, the quotes from the diary above say 05.01.17 to 13.03.17 as opposed to 05.01.16? Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter (SA) Posted 17 April , 2007 Share Posted 17 April , 2007 Hi again Ken - Yes, the 2 diary entries show that the absence was for just those 3 months, over only January to March 1917. The typed version of the diary I referenced erroneously gives the first entry (see before) as 05.01.1916 whjereas it should clearly have been 1917, as all other entries before and after it are in 1917. Do you know whether it is possible to buy a copy of the ES regimental history or does one need to request to photocopy the relevant period from it? Many thanks again for your research and the posting, Peter (SA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJames Posted 18 April , 2007 Share Posted 18 April , 2007 Hi Peter, there is a reprint available from Naval and Military press for GBP30'ish or you can find info on both the reprints and any available original copies on ABE books Here The two volumes deal with all the battalions of the regiment. I found both volumes fascinating and informative. Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter (SA) Posted 14 May , 2007 Share Posted 14 May , 2007 Hi again Ken - Thanks for letting me know about the reprint: and its affordable ! The SA Military History Museum in Johannesburg did have a shorter book on the history of the Regiment over many decades - but it did not have much detail on this period itself. Much appreciated Peter (SA) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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