welshdoc Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 I was watching the prog about kipling which I throughly enjoyed tonight I noted that his son whose body was "not found" was later designated a grave. Does anyone know on what criteria the CWGC accepted the new information on the identity of his sons body? Gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max (UK) Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 I thought it was a wonderful programme (knew very little of Kipling beyond some of his most popular work). But I did wonder about the bit at the end. Did they dig up all the Irish Guards bodies and test them all? Surely if they did that, couldn't they have also identified many others? What after that? Put all the other bodies back again? It just seemed a bit lacking - maybe it was only presented that way, but the explaination of the naming of the grave did not seem thorough enough, somehow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 I also enjoyed this programme very much. It was done in a very understated way, and for once the acted historical recreations did not jar. The whole thing was enthralling, and on occasion very moving, with presenter Griff Rhys Jones being himself brought to the point of tears whilst reading John Kipling's last letter to his parents, written the day before he was killed in action. A classic and thoughtful piece of television, which I hope they repeat sometime soon. Ciao, GAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Agree with GAC on the moving scene with the last letter. Weren't the Holts involved in identifying the grave; also I thought I remembered something about it possibly NOT being Kipling's son, after all. As for proof of identity, it takes a while, and has to be exacting: I managed it for 2 officers in Perth Cemetery. The CWGC were absolutely excellent! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Bennett Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 A very contentious subject. try this link: http://www.aftermathww1.com/kipling.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Armstrong Custer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 A sure way to end the uncertainty would be to take a DNA sample from the remains in the grave of the 'Unknown Irish Guards Lieutenant', and compare the results with those from a surviving member of the Kipling family. Given the extraordinary lengths he went to in trying to discover his son's body, I'm quite certain that Rudyard Kipling would have given permission for this had DNA profiling existed before his death in 1936. Ciao, GAC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 A sure way to end the uncertainty would be to take a DNA sample from the remains in the grave of the 'Unknown Irish Guards Lieutenant', and compare the results with those from a surviving member of the Kipling family. Given the extraordinary lengths he went to in trying to discover his son's body, I'm quite certain that Rudyard Kipling would have given permission for this had DNA profiling existed before his death in 1936. Ciao, GAC DNA testing is all very well but it cannot take into account the possible infidelity of those concerned. Testing an existing member of the Kipling family would prove nothing, only tests on the supposed parents would. There are no known surviving members of the Kipling family. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 It's rather ironic that such an effort - with attendant controversy- has been made to identify the grave of the son of the man who came up with the brilliantly appropriate "Known Unto God" inscription for all unknowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Agree with GAC on the moving scene with the last letter. Weren't the Holts involved in identifying the grave; also I thought I remembered something about it possibly NOT being Kipling's son, after all. As for proof of identity, it takes a while, and has to be exacting: I managed it for 2 officers in Perth Cemetery. The CWGC were absolutely excellent! The Holts wrote a book called 'My Boy Jack' which covered the search for John Kipling's body and the eventual designation of the grave of an unknown soldier as his. The book picks a number of holes in the decision. I'm not sure what the situation is now but the book is well worth a read and extremely well researched. Liam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyspiller Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Pals FYI Rgds Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy 1 Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 A very contentious subject. try this link: http://www.aftermathww1.com/kipling.asp thanks for the link peter it made interesting reading. does anyone know if john kipling's name is still on the memorial to the missing at loos. andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
burlington Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Tremendous programme. My respect for Gryff **** grows by the day. I mean that. He gets involved and did you see the emergence of tears? Martin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
welshdoc Posted 13 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2006 HAve you seen the tears in Griffs eyes on his other programme ( BBC Wales) his restoration project of his farm house near Fishguard? When the pool of water on the ground floor was described as damp! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevem49 Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 thanks for the link peter it made interesting reading. does anyone know if john kipling's name is still on the memorial to the missing at loos. andy It was recently and will probably only be removed the next time the panel needs doing. stevem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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