Northern Soul Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 For anyone who cares to have a go, I have not been able to find these men in the CWGC database despite trying all the variations I can think of. With the exception of John Smethurst (who probably never served overseas) there exist MIC's to all of these men: 2nd Bn. Andrews, Frederick James, Sergeant, 9316, 27th February 1917 (Mesopotamia) 2nd Bn. Etherington, George, Private, 11240, 30th July 1915 (France/Flanders) Now identified 2nd Bn. Lee, James, Private, 17467, 7th September 1917, (Salonika) 4th Bn. Smethurst, John, Private, 200945, 10th April 1917 (Home) 9th Bn. Wareing, Richard, Private, 18976, 12th December 1915 (Salonika) Another probable error I have found (which may as well be posted here rather than starting a new thread) concerns the regimental details of; Marshall, Frank, Private, 21818, 15th November 1916, Hebuterne Military Cemetery; He is listed as 11th Loyals, which is peculiar because they never served abroad. I think he should be 11th King's Own. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 here is my contribution - note typo for cwgc to fix - etherlngton http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...casualty=444258 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 what i did was type eth** to search for wild card typos !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 12 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 12 November , 2006 what i did was type eth** to search for wild card typos !! Thanks Coldstreamer. Sometimes all it needs is a fresh pair of eyes. I thought I'd tried all the logical wildcard combinations. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 always the way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldstreamer Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 have you checked the MIC in case they got renumbered and the CWGC has the new number ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Andy re Marshall - his MIC confirms Kings Own. Actualy it says "Royal Lancaster" CWGC presumably has a scanning error. Suggest you email them with the link to the MIC. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 13 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Andy re Marshall - his MIC confirms Kings Own. Actualy it says "Royal Lancaster" CWGC presumably has a scanning error. Suggest you email them with the link to the MIC. John For various reasons I'm not so sure it is a scanning error but I haven't been able to consult the original register to check. I suspect it was an error made when the registers were first compiled. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 The Etherington error is in hand... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Here is LEE Name: LEE Initials: T Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 07/09/1917 Service No: 17467 Additional information: Son of Mrs. M. Lee, of 19, Calverly St., Preston. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 3. Cemetery: LAHANA MILITARY CEMETERY Initial being queried. GRO Overseas Death Index gives 'J'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 Here is SMETHURST? Can't explain name difference. Where did your info come from? Name: HAMPSON Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 4th Bn. Date of Death: 10/04/1917 Service No: 200945 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: T. N.C. 246. Cemetery: OSWESTRY GENERAL CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 ANDREWS is not in CWGC's database but appears on the GRO Overseas Death Index under Ref. I.19.7. If you get the death certificate, this can be progressed. WAREING is not in CWGC or the GRO Overseas Death Index - including WARING. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 MARSHALL is listed by GRO as King's Own. Unit queried. Original register has Loyal N Lancs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 14 November , 2006 Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Fixed.... Name: MARSHALL, FRANK Initials: F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 11th Bn. Age: 21 Date of Death: 15/11/1916 Service No: 21818 Additional information: Son of John and Mary Ann Marshall, of 13, Savoy St., Preston. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. Q. 8. Cemetery: HEBUTERNE MILITARY CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 14 November , 2006 Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Fixed... Name: ETHERINGTON, GEORGE Initials: G Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 20 Date of Death: 30/07/1915 Service No: 11240 Additional information: Son of Christopher and Francis Maryan Etherington, of 38, Norman Rd., Roman Rd., Bow, London. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. D. 10. Cemetery: ST. QUENTIN CABARET MILITARY CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 14 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Here is SMETHURST? Can't explain name difference. Where did your info come from? Name: HAMPSON Initials: J ....................... From Soldiers Died. I am slowly working my way through it for the King's Own in an attempt to identify uncommemorated men. This one is a puzzle because such a deviation is obviously not a scanning error. Assuming that it isn't a gross mistake in Soldiers Died then a possible explanation could be that Smethurst was his original name with it having changed to Hampson say if his father died and his mother married. It merits further investigation. I would say I have now checked about 20% of the King's Own edition of Soldiers Died and it has so far thrown up two men not commemorated. If this sample can be extrapolated then there could be as many as 10 men in total who have been overlooked and, if it is further extended to the other volumes of SD then there could be 500+ omissions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 14 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2006 re. Marshall and Etherington, thank for sorting the corrections out so quickly. As regards Wareing, I shall download his MIC and see if it mentions his death. Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 14 November , 2006 Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Assuming that it isn't a gross mistake in Soldiers Died then a possible explanation could be that Smethurst was his original name with it having changed to Hampson say if his father died and his mother married. It merits further investigation. Andy That is a big assumption which it is dangerous to make. SDGW has many errors and cannot be taken as gospel without independent corroboration. However, it is very possibly the same man who served under an alias. Also, predictions about numbers from little data are dangerous. They are invariably wide of the mark. I would guess (only a guess) that 500 would be an underestimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 14 November , 2006 Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Forgot to say... HAMPSON appears as such in the original 1931 CWGC register. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 15 November , 2006 Share Posted 15 November , 2006 Another fixed... Name: LEE Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Private Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 2nd Bn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 07/09/1917 Service No: 17467 Additional information: Son of Mrs. M. Lee, of 19, Calverly St., Preston. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: III. D. 9. Cemetery: LAHANA MILITARY CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 15 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 November , 2006 Forgot to say... HAMPSON appears as such in the original 1931 CWGC register. Took the opportunity to-day to do a bit of 'digging' on this man. The GRO Index lists one J. Hampson, aged 50, as died in the Oswestry district in the June 1/4 1917 (Ref 6a 799a). By a strange co-incidence there is also a J. Smethurst listed, aged 50, died in the Oswestry district in the June 1/4 1917 (Ref 6a 799a). I think the registrar hedged his bets here and recorded him under both names; I may just order a copy of his DC. Strange why Soldiers Died should list him as Smethurst and the official records as Hampson. I should have though that if it were an (undetected) alias then both sets of records would have the same name. Thanks for sorting out Private Lee's details. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern Soul Posted 16 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 November , 2006 Took the opportunity to-day to do a bit of 'digging' on this man. The GRO Index lists one J. Hampson, aged 50, as died in the Oswestry district in the June 1/4 1917 (Ref 6a 799a). By a strange co-incidence there is also a J. Smethurst listed, aged 50, died in the Oswestry district in the June 1/4 1917 (Ref 6a 799a). Further investigation reveals that the birth of John Smethurst was registered in the Leigh district (corroborating the entry in Soldiers Died) in the June 1/4 of 1866. There is no corresponding birth registration for John Hampson in the same period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tonpac Posted 15 April , 2009 Share Posted 15 April , 2009 Here is SMETHURST? Can't explain name difference. Where did your info come from? Name: HAMPSON Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 4th Bn. Date of Death: 10/04/1917 Service No: 200945 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: T. N.C. 246. Cemetery: OSWESTRY GENERAL CEMETERY John Smethurst & J Hampson are the same person. Hampson was his mothers maiden name. He used his mothers maiden name when he joined up after leaving his first wife. He remarried in the name of Hampson also. I have a copy of his death certificate. Regards A New member Toni Here is SMETHURST? Can't explain name difference. Where did your info come from? Name: HAMPSON Initials: J Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Lance Corporal Regiment/Service: King's Own (Royal Lancaster Regiment) Unit Text: 4th Bn. Date of Death: 10/04/1917 Service No: 200945 Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: T. N.C. 246. Cemetery: OSWESTRY GENERAL CEMETERY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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