Richard Bain Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Hello Pals, I thought I would put these on for Remembrance Sunday. They were taken near Shadforth, County Durham in July of this year by my daughter when she was on holiday. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Richard, Thanks for the nice pics. And a reply that you had not really expected I suppose : when do poppies blow where you live ? (I see : Durham in July). I'm asking because I have always been surprised that John McCrae wrote his poem In Flanders Fields the poppies blow, so it is said, on May 3. For years I have been on the look-out on May 3rd to see the poppies in Flanders fields. Even on the exact spote where he wrote his poem. (I live nearby.)... But unsuccessfully. Not until much later. And when I tell people somehow they blame me for my scepticism... And reply : "Yes, but in special circumstances, like when the soil was upturned by the shells etc." Mmmm ... I'm not impressed by that argument. This makes them grow in larger quantities, but not sooner ! Sorry I am bothering you with this. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Missinne Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 For years I have been on the look-out on May 3rd to see the poppies in Flanders fields. The same for me, Aurel! But I have seen poppies already at the end of April twice. This happens in the same circumstances as in 1915: steady good weather for a long period (= several weeks). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 12 November , 2006 Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Robert, Next time you see them, give me a call right away ! Reach out and I'll be there. Anywhere. As long as it is in Flanders Fields ! Not in County Durham... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bain Posted 12 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 12 November , 2006 Thanks for the replies Pals - I actually live in Ayrshire, Scotland and we don't really see many poppies growing wild in this neck of the woods. When my daughter saw this field in County Durham, she just had to take the photos as she knows of my interest in the Great War. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djronline Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 The same for me, Aurel! But I have seen poppies already at the end of April twice. This happens in the same circumstances as in 1915: steady good weather for a long period (= several weeks). I am re-reading Robert Graves' "Goodbye to All That", and noticed this in Chapter 12: (Graves had just been posted to Cambrin, between Bethune and La Bassee.) "Our guide took us up to the front line. We passed a group of men huddled over a brazier - small men, daubed with mud, talking quietly in Welsh. They were wearing waterproof capes, for it had now started to rain, and cap-comforters, because the weather was cold for May." So it is May 1915. Then, the next morning: "At stand-to, rum and tea were served out. I looked at the German trenches through a periscope - a distant streak of sandbags... Between us and them lay a flat meadow with cornflowers, marguerites, and poppies growing in the long grass... " So, independently, Graves in Artois just a few miles SW of McCrae in Ypres also saw poppies in May 1915. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 UVH, Thanks for your reply. If Graves says so, who am I to doubt his words of course. (By the way, was it early May ? As you see, I remain skeptical... Every year May 3rd is marked on my calendar, telling me to look out. But the result is always negative. Maybe next time, with the warming of our planet... ? And maybe at the end of April next year I will launch an appeal in this forum for Pals to be on the look-out in Flanders... Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 Poppies here in Essex in the banks... did see them on the Somme but then that was July. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 18 November , 2006 Share Posted 18 November , 2006 John, Absolutely ! In full bloom in July (maybe end of June too.) That's why I have always been a bit skeptical about poppies on May 3. But if Robert M. says he has seen them at the time ... And sure, Robert is an honourable man. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 19 November , 2006 Share Posted 19 November , 2006 here they are, not as many as in Flanders John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 John, And this is Flanders Fields. Same location as where John McCrae on 3 May 1915 ... But this is 8 July 2003. I'll be back there on 3 May 2007. And take a photo from the same spot. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Rogers Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Aurel, and just why do you have May 3rd marked onn your calendar? Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Hush ! Sh*t up, Bill. Otherwise my next May 3rd will be ruined again by people who ... Anyway, here's another one, of the same location, seen from the 49th Div. Memorial toward the John McCrae site and Essex Farm Cemetery. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred van Woerkom Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Bill, It's his wedding anniversary ! All the best, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Fred ! My revenge is sweet. So here is another flower. From Holland's Fields. (Sorry, Richard, for spoiling your Topic, but I just had to do this ! Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bain Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 It's OK Pals, I enjoy the banter. Anyway, as they say, "Here's one I took earlier!" This was taken in April 2003 at Essex Farm. It just goes to show what a difference a month makes in matters horticultural. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john w. Posted 21 November , 2006 Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Know it well.. near that elusive Yorkshire Trench John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACRAE Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 When i come to think about it i cant recall seeing any in Scotland . Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 2 December , 2006 Share Posted 2 December , 2006 OK, next year between mid April and beginning of July I will post a photo of near the John McCrae site in this thread once a week. What I want to "prove" ? That poppies on May 3rd 1915 must have been very exceptional. Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred van Woerkom Posted 3 December , 2006 Share Posted 3 December , 2006 Aurel, There you go again ! Instead of straying at home on your wedding anniversary and holding your wife's hands and declaring your undying love, you go about pointing your camera (zoomless) at non-existent poppies ! Incoorigible ! All the best, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred van Woerkom Posted 6 December , 2006 Share Posted 6 December , 2006 Aurel, Why not go out today in this glorious weather? What with the climate change you have more chance of seeing poppies now than in spring ! I hope I have not created the wrong impression of M. Sercu : he is a loyal husband and is fond of photographing his lovely wife, indeed he is so fond of her that you sometimes wonder whether she gets lockjaw because she smiles in so many pictures. Instead of seeing poppies in Flanders Fields, he often ponts his zoomless camera at the poppies ('poppetjes') in her eyes. All the best, Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
angelab Posted 6 December , 2006 Share Posted 6 December , 2006 ...What I want to "prove" ? That poppies on May 3rd 1915 must have been very exceptional. Only yesterday I was looking up the details of McCrae's grave at Wimereux, and came across a lot of detail on the poem. Including something in which a soldier to whom McCrae showed the poem he had just written said later that the word "blow" had not been at the end of the first line when he saw it, but was a modification made before the poem appeared in print in Punch in ?December 1915. Sorry - can't find the reference now, of course! Angela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 6 December , 2006 Share Posted 6 December , 2006 Fred, One day that ornament on your upper lip will appear in one of my postings again ! Angela, I have always been puzzled by this "blow" versus "grow". This is what I have always believed that happened. The original version (manuscript), sent to Punch, published Decemeber 1915 had : In Flanders fields the poppies BLOW. (This manuscript, enlarged, is also displayed in the Ypres In Flanders Fields Museum.) Later, after he had left Flanders, John McCrae slightly rewrote the poem, replacing the word "blow" by "grow", and changing some of the punctuation. This revised adapatation is often considered as a second version of the poem. (Your posting says that "grow" was the original version, and the version sent to Punch showed "blow".) Also this. Especially for Canadian pals. I think that some years ago (2000 ?) there were rumours that the Canadian government would recall a bill (10 Can. Dollars ?) because of a so-called "misprint" : the line on the back of the bill said "blow" instead of "grow". This had prompted a great number of complaints and protests from Canadians. As far as I know this was a false rumour, the bill was not recalled, and the Canadian governmant had been very sure when the bill was printed, that "blow" was the correct and original version. Yet for some reason popular belief was that the original version had been "grow". Because this sounded better (?). Maybe it was caused by the fact that the last line but one ends on "grow" ? (We shall not sleep, though poppies grow ...) I have discussed this a couple of times with Canadian visitors in the Salient, but there always was some sort of disagreement. One more thing. English is not my mother tongue. And I have always understood "blow" as "bloom". Until a native speaker made me doubt. He said that it meant : "moved by the wind". Who is right ? Or maybe both ? Aurel (And I have another (silly ?) question. As a language teacher I have always thought that it should be : In Flanders' fields, with an apostrophe. Any English teachers specialized in grammar and spelling among our pals who have an opinion ?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Bain Posted 8 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 December , 2006 So, I leave you lot for a week to go and see my grand daughter and what happens? Here is a copy of "In Flanders Fields" which I got in a packet of chocolate in Ieper a number of years ago As you can see it was published in December 1915. Maybe McCrae got mixed up with his dates and it wasn't May after all. I would agree with Dan poppies don't grow in Scotland, well not in my garden and I've tried. Aurel, "blow" is moved by the wind and I would agree as a retired teacher that it should be "Flanders'" with an apostrophe but what would it matter in 1915? Anyway, it was good of you all to keep the thread going in my absence. Take care out there, Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurel Sercu Posted 9 December , 2006 Share Posted 9 December , 2006 As you can see it was published in December 1915. Maybe McCrae got mixed up with his dates and it wasn't May after all. "blow" is moved by the wind And I would agree as a retired teacher that it should be "Flanders'" with an apostrophe but what would it matter in 1915? Richard Richard, Noticing that there are no popies indeed at the beginning of May, I too thought that maybe John McCrae did not write his poem until later. But ... there are witnesses (a certain C.L.C. Allinson) seeing that he wrote it on May 3rd. And should he have written it later, then it must have been before June 1st, the date he was moved from Boezinge (Ypres) to near Bologne. "Blow" is : moved by the wind ? I'm afraid that I will have to contact a few hundreds of my former pupils, to correct what I told them years ago .. And Flanders should have an apostrophe ? Thanks ! At least someone in the UK does not look at me as if I come from Mars (and with an expression : why should you care, if we don't !?) if I bring up the issue. But I have realized since that the apostrophe is not really popular across the Channel. Aurel Aurel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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