Villers Bretonneux 8th August 1918

[Guest staffordshirechina]

Hi,

I am researching my Great Uncle who was killed at Villers Bretonneux on the day that the Aussies and Canadians re-took the village.

I can find plenty of info about them but none about British units also taking part.

Lance Bombardier A W Sherwin L40722 was with 'C' Bty, 189th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery and died that day. He is buried at the Villers Bretoneux cemetery.

Any info or pointers would be gratefully received, thanks.

Les

[duckman]

Hi,

I am researching my Great Uncle who was killed at Villers Bretonneux on the day that the Aussies and Canadians re-took the village.

I can find plenty of info about them but none about British units also taking part.

Lance Bombardier A W Sherwin L40722 was with 'C' Bty, 189th Brigade, Royal Field Artillery and died that day. He is buried at the Villers Bretoneux cemetery.

Any info or pointers would be gratefully received, thanks.

Les

Les,

I think you're a bit confused. Villers Bretonneux changed hands twice in April, but by August 8th (after Hamel, as well) it was some way behind the lines. As far as I can tell (http://www.1914-1918.net/rfa_units.htm#100-200) 189 Brig was an Army Brigade, presumably attached to 4th Army at this time. Although the infantry component of 4th Army (at the pointy end) was mainly Canadian and Australian, the Artillery support was heavily British. I don't have a complete list of batteries/brigades, but the British Artillery included Army, III Corps, most of the heavies in the Australian Corps, plus attached artillery from 25th Div and the reserves listed below.

Other forces, FWIW - III Corps operated with limited success N. of the Somme (on the Australian left). It consisted of 12, 18 and 58 Division, plus some American attachments, and was the main British commitment that day. 32 and 17 Div were in reserve for the Canadian and Australian Corps respectively, and 1 2 and 3 Cavalry Divisions were in Army reserve (some cav saw action). The Tank Corps provided over 500 tanks.

[Guest staffordshirechina]

Thanks for the extra info.

From what I have seen on some of the Aussie history sites, they had a big push back towards the East starting early 8/8/1918. Villers Bretonneux was recaptured and was pretty much the starting point for the push. (see http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_detail...3000&mode=1 )

The details of 4th Army etc do tie in with other info (from this site) about attachment at that time.

I presume that the RFA were in support but can find little or no details.

Les

[Ozzie]

Les,

You may be able to glean something from here.

http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/7/chapters/13.pdf

Cheers

Kim

[duckman]

Adding to Kims post, I would recommend the relevant chapters of the medical history: http://www.awm.gov.au/histories/chapter.asp?volume=14 Chapters XXI and XXII. These show the positions and movements of medical stations.

All three (these plus Kim's) have good maps that should interest.

Also see the index to Bean: http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/7/chapters/24.pdf there are 9 references to 189th Brig. (2nd column of page xxxii). None specifically relate to Amiens, but several refer to actions a couple of days later. If nothing else, they should give you some colour. (Bean is beautifully indexed and a treat to use, unlike some official histories).

It was typical that Dressing stations and/or Casualty Clearing Stations would bury their dead nearby, and that temporary cemetary would later be taken over by CWGC as a permanent cemetary. The Australians had a Main Dressing Station at VB. VB was in the Canadian sector though, and I have a vague memory of reading that this was a shared facility. FWIW, the Canadians only took over that sector hours before the attack (for secrecy) so it would not surprise if they relied on infrastructure put in place previously by the Australians. The Canadian official history might also have some useful info. Having said that, the link to the cemetery you provided mentions that a number of burials were brought in from a wide area, so the Villers Bretonneux connection may not be all that strong.

You are right about VB being near the lines, but it had been firmly in allied hands for more than 3 months, which is why it had a dressing station set up there.

To get back to the nub of your question, it would seem that 4th Army utilised 1386 guns - 810 of these would have been "organic" to the 15 Infantry divisions involved (5 Aus, 4 Can, 6 Brit). Of the other 576, I spotted a remark that artillery support was provided by 27 medium brigades and 13 heavy batteries. 27 Brigades would be another 486 guns, so that gels. Some would have been attached at Corps level, some at Army level. I suspect (on little evidence) that your relative's unit was attached to 4th Army, rather than the component Corps. Checking through the references in the index to Bean should clear that up.

As far as I can tell, he would have been serving 18 pdrs. Most of these were used to create the devastating creeping barrage that made the infantry task comparatively straightforward. His work probably helped spare many Australian and Canadian lives that day.

My great uncle was at Australian Corps HQ at this time, so on their behalf, I'll say thanks.

cheers

Frank

[frev]

Hi Les

Another one worth checking out:

http://www.awm.gov.au/cms_images/histories/7/chapters/15.pdf

You'll find the 189th Army Bde, RFA mentioned in the notes at the bottom of page 620.

Cheers, Frev