What information can I find from this photo (uniform/medals etc)?

[emmawoodhouse]

I have been given a photograph of my grandfather, who I believe served in the Great War.

I know very little about him, and nothing about the army.

I am hoping that his medals and uniform might help me to trace him.

The things I do know are his name, Timothy Ryan, born 1897 or 1898, and that he was from Tipperary, Ireland.

I would be very grateful indeed if anyone who recognises anything about the photograph could help.

Many thanks.

[Muerrisch]

The photograph was taken post-war [collar badges]. A Fusilier regiment probably.

Medals are: breast to arm 1914 star OR 1914-15 star, British War Medal, Victory Medal plus an unknown extreme right which may just be DCM but if so worn in incorrect position. As the medals are not 'court mounted' but dangle on long ribbons, he may have strung them up himself.

Someone will have a look for a record card, no doubt.

[Coldstreamer]

what photo ? I cant see any thing here...

[emmawoodhouse]

what photo ? I cant see any thing here...

Sorry, being a novice I messed up and I think I have posted twice.

I have edited it to now include the photo - I hope!!

Thanks for your help.

[Coldstreamer]

practice makes perfect and I can see now - thought it was me as I have been playing with the PC settings today!

[Coldstreamer]

and that end medal - GSM ? It has a bar

[Coldstreamer]

Sorry , using jargon

General Service medal or India Service medal ?

[Coldstreamer]

most likely is India with Afghanistan bar - but just making educated guesses as its the common bar

Can you get a close up picture of the end medal ?

[BeppoSapone]

Re the flash on his arm - 1/8 Lancashire Fusiliers wore white numeral on a crimson diamond and 1/8 Manchesters wore a red numeral on orange.

Given the collar badges I would imagine he served with the 1/8 Lancashire Fusiliers. Anyone who knows about black and white photography. Does the flash look as if it is white and crimson?

[emmawoodhouse]

Sorry , using jargon

General Service medal or India Service medal ?

As I say, I know absolutely nothing about medals etc. but I had a look on a website about Indian service men and the picture they showed of the GSM looked very like the one on this photograph, and whilst I can't read the bar, it does look like it has a four letter word on it - which looked rather like the one I found on the internet which said IRAQ.

Do you know if the eight on his arm tells us anything?

Pardon my ignorance, but it is absolute!

[Coldstreamer]

Manchester Regt was in Iraq (not all of them!)

[Muerrisch]

Position of ?GSM? indicates it was won after the other three ..... campaign medals go breast to arm in order of award.

[joseph]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum,

Assuming that he would have been renumbered if he is in possesion of the GSM Iraq. A trawl through the MIC leave only one thats this chap;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=20

4th Bn Royal Fusiliers was in Iraq in 1919. Could it be the Royal Fusiliers instead of the Lancashire Fusiliers.

Regards Charles

[emmawoodhouse]

Hi,

Welcome to the forum,

Assuming that he would have been renumbered if he is in possesion of the GSM Iraq. A trawl through the MIC leave only one thats this chap;

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=20

4th Bn Royal Fusiliers was in Iraq in 1919. Could it be the Royal Fusiliers instead of the Lancashire Fusiliers.

Regards Charles

I am amazed and incredibly grateful to you all!

How do you do it?

I will buy this record and see where it gets me. I'll no doubt be back shortly asking what it all means!

[Michael Johnson]

That is definitely a General Service Medal on the end.

The following Fusilier regiments were in Iraq:

4th Royal Fusliers - 17th Division, 34th Brigade

2nd Northumberland Fusiliers - 18th Division, 54th Brigade

The Royal Irish Fusiliers were on lines of communication.

But remember that the Royal Field Artillery also wore collar grenades.

[Michael Johnson]

Position of ?GSM? indicates it was won after the other three ..... campaign medals go breast to arm in order of award.

All of the clasps to the GSM were for postwar actions. The first (S. Persia started November 12, 1918.

[emmawoodhouse]

I have now purchased the record and it is pretty detailed... and I remain clueless!

There are five entries under the Corps - Leins R, Lab C, R Fus x3 (why would he have moved around so much?).

There is a lot of detailed information next to the medals awarded section - is there an easy way to find out what it all means?

[joseph]

Emma,

Can you post the Card on here, someone will help out.

Regards Charles

[emmawoodhouse]

I have tried to get it the best I can but can't post it at much of a resolution.

I can probably make bits of it out if they are not too clear.

[Michael Johnson]

I'm rather new at this myself, but all the medals are accounted for, and it is a GSM "Iraq" as opposed to "Kurdistan" or "S. Persia".

I think he spent started with the Leinsters (with a name like 'Ryan' that makes sense, then transferred to the Labour Corps (wounds?). He went to the Royal Fusiliers - I'm not sure why the two numbers, unless the first accidentally duplicated an existing number. The last is due to a post war renumbering of the Army.

There was some confusion about his medals, as he was on two or three different rolls.

The 2B on "Theatre" indicates Gallipoli.

[emmawoodhouse]

Thank you so much.

I had no idea when I asked this question a few hours ago how much help I would receive.

It is terribly moving, today of all days.

[Coldstreamer]

At least you know what the medals are now - my first guess was right

The star is the 1914-15 star

Its an interesting card for sure

[joseph]

Emma,

Looks like the right one, he first went 'into action' shall we say, with the 6th (Service) Battalion Leinster Regiment. His number suggests he was a very early enlistnment. Many Ryans joined up from Tipperary in fact two Timothy Ryan's where Killed in Action.

There may be an expert on the Leins who could tell you more or if he is mentioned in any historys Etc.

Regards Charles

[emmawoodhouse]

Emma,

Looks like the right one, he first went 'into action' shall we say, with the 6th (Service) Battalion Leinster Regiment. His number suggests he was a very early enlistnment. Many Ryans joined up from Tipperary in fact two Timothy Ryan's where Killed in Action.

There may be an expert on the Leins who could tell you more or if he is mentioned in any historys Etc.

Regards Charles

Thank you Charles - you definitely provided the key to me finding the right record.

I had known my grandfather survived (he died in 1952) and in fact I wouldn't actually be here if he was one of those unfortunate men who lost their life. However, my father (his son) died young, and I never knew my grandfather (I was born after his death) so I have very little information whatsoever about him.

How do you know which Battalion - is that based on which one served in Gallipoli at this time, or does it say it on the record? I am actually starting to make a bit of sense of all of this (I think?), and trying to understand what I can of it.

I will see if I can find anyone who knows more about the Leinsters.

Thank you once again.

[joseph]

Emma,

His number suggests a Service Battalion (not an exact science though) and the 6th served in Gallipoli on the date he went, no other Leinster Battalions went. The 6th was with the 29th Brigade 10th (Irish) Division. There are also other men from Tipperary with numbers close to his that where KIA there.

Regards Charles