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Trench Map Help Wanted!


Mark A

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Hi there everyone, hope you are well. I'm looking for any pal (s) to help me find, or advise me where I can find, the trench maps for Quadrangle Alley, Quadrangle Support Trench, Pearl ALley- essentially the area north of Fricourt and slightly west of Mametz Wood.

Any help would greatly be appreciated. I'm in the painfully slow process of trying to piece together the last steps of my great, great uncle who died attacking Quadrangle Support Trench in 1916. It's been good fun finding the battalion war diaries and I have maps of the general area- but nothing really specific.

Thanks in advance and all the best-

Mark

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Mark, you should track down the 'Fricourt-Mametz' book in the Battleground Europe series from Pen & Sword. This will give you a good base for touring the area.

I've been there a few times and find it quite an easy battlefield to read. You should find it very rewarding!

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you should track down the 'Fricourt-Mametz' book in the Battleground Europe series from Pen & Sword.

The 'Mametz Wood' volume by Michael Renshaw (Pen & Sword) covers the Quadrangle Support Trench actions in rather more detail.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Mark,

Have you tried the GH Smith and Son trench maps? They have one of around that area (12S. MEAULTE 62D NE2) as it was in April 1916. Is that the time you were looking for?

Hope this is helpful.

Catherine

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For G H Smith - they have their own web site (http://www.ghsmith.com/worldwar1/trenchmaps.html)

The maps are also available through other outlets. Those that spring to mind are the IWM and Delville Wood - you used to be able to get them from Stanfords in Long Acre but they may not stock them any longer. Some have appeared on Ebay recently but with bids starting at £3.99 plus postage they are cheaper from the IWM or directly from Smiths. Not all of them have been listed on the web site.

I believe that there is some coverage of the area in Chasseaud's splendid map volume "Topography of Armageddon". Try Ray Westlake Military Books or any good bookseller.

If you are tempted there is the IWM/Naval & Military Press Trench Map CD with 175 or so maps covering the majority of the Western Front as most people know it.

WFA members can also use the Association's Trench Map Service and a guide to this can be read by anyone on the Association's site.

Links to these sites can be found on the mother site's links pages.

Hope this is a useful start.

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Hi Mark,

I would also suggest the Imperial War Museum. They stock many of these maps in the London shop anyway. They do have a mail order dept as well.

I have 62d NE2a dated 07/09/15 and 62d NE2 2b 15/06/16 as I have all the maps on CD - I can do you an image if you know which bit you want? Is it essentially just Fricourt & Mametz?

For example here is a part image for you from 1915.

fricourt1.jpg

Regards

Ryan

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Hi there Ryan-

Thanks for that (and thanks to Martin as well for the map information- I may well go ahead and order them).

As far as your offer of an image, that would be great Ryan. The area I need is north of Mametz village and west of Mametz Wood. I would love a map or image of Bottom Wood northwards- to Quadrangle Trench and Quadrangle Support. Knowing my luck, the area I want will be in the intersection of three maps (it usually is).

Basically my great, great uncle died attacking Quadrangle Support and it's been a big wish of mine to go and lay a poppy wreath there to him and the men of the 10th Sherwood Foresters- if I can find the spot (and ask the farmer!).

Cheers for all your help- this forum really is fantastic!

M

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Maybe a bit off topic, but do the french have anything like ordnance survey?

I've had a look on the web, but can't find anything.

I'm trying to get a detailed map of the Lateau wood area near Cambrai as it is today. (but if anyone has a copy of trench map they could scan I'd be indebted too.)

It's where the 6th Battalion, Queens Own (Royal West Kent Regiment) got cut off on 30th Nov 1917 during the german counter-attack to the Cambrai offensive.

Best wishes

Ian

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Hi Mark,

Looks like Martin answered your question about GH Smith&Son :) . They do very nice maps (in my opinion of the ones I've seen anyway!), and I would recommend getting hold of some if you can. Can I also second Martin's recommendation of 'Topography of Armageddon' - it's fascinating. I found a copy in my local library, so you might have some luck at yours; I imagine it's pretty expensive to buy as it's a big book.

Good luck! Let us know how it goes, if you can - I'd be interested to hear about your trip when you make it over there.

Catherine

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Hi Mark,

Send me an email so I can get something over to you. If you are on broadband I can send a decent size JPG, PDF or something. I'll send what I can find.

Ryan

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do the french have anything like ordnance survey?

The French Institut Géographique National (IGN) is a similar organisation to OS in that they produce excellent modern maps of the whole of France. Their Serie Bleu maps, 1:25000 scale, are essential for battlefield touring. They also produce larger scale maps for general touring purposes. You can find them on sale in newagents, tobacconists and bookshops in France. They are obtainable at various map specialists in UK too.

IGN website

The area of Lateau Wood (Bonavis, etc) is on the 2507E Cambrai Ouest/Marcoing map. Link to the IGN page about it is here.

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Yeah, 'Topography of Armageddon' works pretty much every time for me for general enquiries.

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I'm interested in the St.Mihiel Salient and Verdun areas so the IWM and any other British sources have absolutely nothing - foreigners there, old boy, Not important.

if anyone else wants maps of the French areas you can in theory get them from Vincennes, but they only photocopy in black and white, so they can be extremely difficult to use i.e. virtually impossible in many cases.

If you go to Verdun, the memorial at Fleury now has an amazing archive that you can visit (but only serious visiting, it is not a wander round place). They have enough books to keep you going for a couple of lifetimes and an enormous set of maps. Many, if not most of these are maps produced by the French army after the war, but are fascinating and if you search you can find gems.

They will photocopy for a fee.

Please make an appointment beforehand by ringing the Memorial. I'm not sure that people who just walk in will find it open.

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French IGN maps

The French have 1:25000 maps like ours but they also sell them on CD. I wish the Ordnance Survey would do the same!

For about 38 Euro, disc 80 Est covers a fair bit of the Somme battlefield

www.bayo.com/cartographie/cartoexploreur/

The software that comes with the disc allows you to zoom, pan etc. Although it does not have a "save this part of the map" feature, one can always press ALT + Printscreen then paste the screen into other software.

Howard

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