salientpoints Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 Just investigated a story behind this which I came across from the programme/book ww1 in colour - A viewer wrote in to the production company - a Mr D W Fotherby stating that he had purchased the book and subsequently the DVD, and felt certain that the British soldier on the front of the book jacket was his father. Is there any record of a 'Fotherby' in this location/period ? Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
docchippy Posted 16 February , 2004 Share Posted 16 February , 2004 Another name to add to the potential for Malins' man. Newspaper article from late 1990s around the time of Birdsong being released and illustrated discussion of cinema at IWM, claims it was a William Holland, who was attached to the 59th division. He died in the 1930s. Anyone seen this article or heard this name mentioned with an idea of regt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 17 February , 2004 Share Posted 17 February , 2004 Salient... Do you have the ISBN number for the book. I am trying to locate it over here, and haven't had much luck on the title. Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salientpoints Posted 17 February , 2004 Share Posted 17 February , 2004 Salient... Do you have the ISBN number for the book. I am trying to locate it over here, and haven't had much luck on the title. Thanks, Andy Hi Andy The isbn is 0091897823 - if you want the DVD you can also pick that up Are you in the Canada? I have looked on amazon.com and neither are featured. They are both on amazon.co.uk though and the book was on amazon.ca If you have any problems let me know. I can get them for you and sort something out? Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 February , 2004 Share Posted 17 February , 2004 Hi ttdo, The man you requested look up on is on page 289 of Southend and District Roll and says the following:- PIPER,17539,Sgt Ernest W., MM, Royal Field Artillery Sergeant Piper was the second son of Mr & Mrs Piper of 1, Belle Vue Place, Southchurch and was educated at Southchurch Hall School, later being employed in the Midland Railway Company, Southend. He enlisted in November 1914, and was sent to France in August 1915. He was wounded in September 1917, and in March 1918 was awarded the M.M. for his services during the retreat. He was killed in action on the 13th October aged 23, his B.S.M writing: "He was killed while serving his gun by a shell which fell among the deatachment, wounding the Major, section officer, and seceral others." He was buried at Iwuy,near Buchan, Cambrai. see Southend Standard 31-10-18 for obit and Southend Standard 2-11-18 for photo. ttdo, the library containing microfilms of these papers is just down the road from me if you would like a copy of the papers let me know and i will get them for you, Southchurch Hall Schools is still there also but not sure if his house is still there although the address is, hope this helps you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttd0 Posted 18 February , 2004 Share Posted 18 February , 2004 Thanks very much for the info Tim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markinbelfast Posted 21 February , 2004 Share Posted 21 February , 2004 for a limited time here and heres another Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 22 February , 2004 Share Posted 22 February , 2004 The postcard of this event, still trying to work out why credited with Beaumont Hamel when this gentleman died 4-7-16, buried in Bethune and his battalion was not even there on 1-7-16. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 22 February , 2004 Share Posted 22 February , 2004 Ryan, THanks for the info. Actually I am in the US, and I have had a hard time getting books from time to time. I do have a small ace in the hole though. My roommate works for Barnes and Noble, and she can get most anything with an ISBN. I have also ordered off amazon.co.uk and they usually have a good turn around time for reasonable shipping costs. Thanks for the offer though... you may be my second ace in the hole shoudl any of the above options fall through. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveslocombe Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 I'm sure the film of a soldier carrying an injured comrade along a trench, part of the Battle of the Somme film by Geoffrey Malins, is well known to all of you. I have been told by Roger Smithers of the IWM that 70 possible identities have now been put forward, my own Grandfather being one of them, but due to data protection he is unable to provide me with a list of the other candidates or their relatives contact details. What I intend to do is to use facial recognition software developed by Jeff Jonas, Las Vegas, Nevada, to try to positively ID this mystery Tommy and would be grateful if anyone could put forward other names or contacts of people who think they might be related to this 'filmstar'. If you are unsure of the clip then there is a still at http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.203 which I believe is subject to a IWM copyright and so I have not reproduced it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bantamforgot Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 This has been gone over a few times, the picture also having been posted, the original name of the "soldier" for sometime alleged to be the man in the trench was disproved & as Roger Smithers has said there are many claiments. I have one photo if you wish to try your system but better I send by e mail. Colin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1690philip Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 Clive please post the outcome please. Regards, Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 Whilst I understand why the IWM cannot reveal the details of living relatives, I find it rather odd that that they use the Data Protection Act to protect a list of possible candidates who have been dead for many years. Using that criteria, the CWGC should not have been able to publish a list of men who may, or may not be buried, at Pheasant Wood, Fromelles. That apart, good luck with your research Clive. TR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartd Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 A search of the forums on here would assist you with more information on the possible candidates as there have been numerous discussions of it before. In fact, I recall a particularly long thread which ran into pages! There was also a programme a while back on tv (which was actually on YouTube for some time) called something like The Secret History of the Somme (?) in which Andy Robertshaw et al used modern computer techniques to tease more out of the old Malins footage. Part of the programme had them following up on a claim by a man that the soldier from the famous caption was his grandfather. They applied some sort of facial scans to show that - in fact - the man was mistaken and that the belief held by his family for 90 years that their relative was the famous Tommy was in fact wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 I'm sure the film of a soldier carrying an injured comrade along a trench, part of the Battle of the Somme film by Geoffrey Malins, is well known to all of you. I have been told by Roger Smithers of the IWM that 70 possible identities have now been put forward, my own Grandfather being one of them, but due to data protection he is unable to provide me with a list of the other candidates or their relatives contact details. What I intend to do is to use facial recognition software developed by Jeff Jonas, Las Vegas, Nevada, to try to positively ID this mystery Tommy and would be grateful if anyone could put forward other names or contacts of people who think they might be related to this 'filmstar'. If you are unsure of the clip then there is a still at http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/nav.203 which I believe is subject to a IWM copyright and so I have not reproduced it here. Typical museum, think everything is for their eyes only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroc Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 A little bit harsh, John! I'd like to think the remark was made with at least some tongue in cheek! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 1 September , 2009 Share Posted 1 September , 2009 Whilst I understand why the IWM cannot reveal the details of living relatives, I find it rather odd that that they use the Data Protection Act to protect a list of possible candidates who have been dead for many years. Using that criteria, the CWGC should not have been able to publish a list of men who may, or may not be buried, at Pheasant Wood, Fromelles. That apart, good luck with your research Clive. TR I have said this before on the forum. If anyone cites the Data Protection Act (DPA) as the reason why they cannot release details of dead people, it is a cop out, or they are ignorant of the law. The DPA does not apply to dead people. Yes, absolutely refuse to release details of anyone living, the law prohibits it explicitly, but the dead, are almost fair game. A good genealogist, and there are many on this forum, would not have too much difficulty in tracing decendants of the dead men using documents in the public domain..... if only their details were released. Professor Simon Rogerson writes 'Once a person dies he or she is no longer a data subject and therefore the Act no longer applies which means the personal health data* can be distributed, processed and published without restriction under the Act.' * replace Personal Health Data, with just about any personal data. Read the full article here. Just for clarity, this does not mean that an organisation has to comply with a request for information if the subject of the enquiry is dead, it simply means that citing the DPA as their reason for not providing the requested information is an invalid one. It may be a policy of whatever repository it may be that information is not given out because they don't want to give it out, but that is something entirely different. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 2 September , 2009 Share Posted 2 September , 2009 My recollection of the Andy Robertshaw TV programme is that the facial recognition software experts thought that it was the man whose grandson were featured, but that his service record showed that he was in the UK at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petroc Posted 2 September , 2009 Share Posted 2 September , 2009 Nigel, very brief question; do you know if the IWM actually has firm, legally-enforcable, copyright and 'ownership' of the Malins film? If so, then the Museum's decision to restrict aspects of accessibility to certain parts of the picture or even individual frames therein might be justifiable not only on the grounds of 'respect for hitherto unidentifiable individuals' (my quotation marks, obviously!) but then also be moved by the necessity to preserve a fragile historical document. That said, a serious analysis of the film (not taking anything away from that excellent TV documentary) using a range of qualified academics from various fields of study might be extremely beneficial.. Just a muse, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nigel Marshall Posted 2 September , 2009 Share Posted 2 September , 2009 Hello Andy, I'm sorry but I don't know the answer to this. Cheers, Nigel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithmroberts Posted 3 September , 2009 Share Posted 3 September , 2009 The way to confirm copyright issues is surely to write to them. I doubt if they would deliberately mislead anyone. I'm sure there is copyright in the freshly digitised release of the film, but as to the original? Keith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveslocombe Posted 3 September , 2009 Share Posted 3 September , 2009 Any other suggestions? cliveslocombe@googlemail.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 3 September , 2009 Share Posted 3 September , 2009 There will never be a difinitive answer even with facial recognition software - so why not let it lie? I am more intrigued as to what time of day the film was shot and this event captured. What was an apparently fit man doing out of the line? Mick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cliveslocombe Posted 3 September , 2009 Share Posted 3 September , 2009 Have a look at http://videos.howstuffworks.com/discovery/...ition-video.htm We can at least narrow the field using this software and then postule which candidate is the most likely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuartd Posted 3 September , 2009 Share Posted 3 September , 2009 Gibbo - yes I do recall that was the case. I think I have it on DVD somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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