chrisharley9 Posted 9 November , 2006 Share Posted 9 November , 2006 If you look at what follows I believe that there is strong evidence to show that both of these lads are buried somewhere in the UK; only 2 crew members of this ship died when this ship was sunk & both were washed ashore in Sussex Name: WHITE, JOSEPH WILLIAM Initials: J W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Trimmer Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: S.S. "Alaunia" (Liverpool) Age: 16 Date of Death: 19/10/1916 Additional information: Son of John and Mary White, of 50, May's Cottages, Burke St., Canning Town, London. Born at West Ham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL Reference: COR/1/3/392 Creation dates: 27 Oct 1916 UNKNOWN Scope and Content male, found on beach at Pevensey Bay, apparently a vessel's fireman, about 18; drowned following explosion on SS Alaunia, no evidence as to cause of explosion Name: MORRIS, CHARLES FREDERICK Initials: C F Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: 2nd Steward Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: S.S. "Alaunia" (Liverpool) Age: 42 Date of Death: 19/10/1916 Additional information: Son of the late C. F. and Eliza Morris; husband of Regina Morris (nee Casey), of 56, Mulgrave St., Princes Park, Liverpool. Born at Warwick. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL Reference: COR/1/3/390 Creation dates: 26 Oct 1916 MORRIS Scope and Content Charles Frederick, 56 Mowbrey Street, Liverpool, ship's steward, 43; washed ashore near Wish Tower, Eastbourne; injuries probably caused by explosion when SS Alaunia hit mine Steward Morris may be buried somewhere in the Liverpool area - does any one know how to search that citys burial records As Trimmer White was the other casualty from the Alaunia his must be the unidentified body washed ashore at Pevensey - probably buried as an unknown merchant seaman somewhere - now the proof is here from the Sussex Records Office - the Coroner has confirmed that the unknown merchant seaman was from the Alaunia. How can the CWGC records be checked to come up with any possible matches - strange that the Coroner did not come with a possible ID due to the very small casualty list from this ship Any comments/advice would be appreciated Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 9 November , 2006 Share Posted 9 November , 2006 I'll check the 'Unknowns' in Sussex for you. However, how will you know which of these men is any particular 'Unknown'? You will have to prove that one of these men is in any particular grave before any changes can be made. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 9 November , 2006 Share Posted 9 November , 2006 There is only one Unknown WW1 Mercantile Marine man buried in Sussex and he is known to be from SS Tycho. He is buried in Rottingdean along with a named casualty from the same ship. It is possible that an unknown seaman would have been buried in a common grave somewhere and the Board of Trade or anybody else failed to inform CWGC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 9 November , 2006 Share Posted 9 November , 2006 Chris Liverpool City Council's Cemeteries Department can be contacted on 0151 233 3004. I've dealt with them on a few occasions and always found them to be helpful and informative. They should be able to tell you if the burial records are accessible and searchable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2006 Terry & Stephen Will be cracking on with this one as time allows & will be in touch - thanks for the advice Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 10 November , 2006 There is only one Unknown WW1 Mercantile Marine man buried in Sussex and he is known to be from SS Tycho. He is buried in Rottingdean along with a named casualty from the same ship. It is possible that an unknown seaman would have been buried in a common grave somewhere and the Board of Trade or anybody else failed to inform CWGC. Terry What is the possible burial site taking it that the body was washed ashore at Pevensey Bay? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 14 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 14 November , 2006 Chris Liverpool City Council's Cemeteries Department can be contacted on 0151 233 3004. I've dealt with them on a few occasions and always found them to be helpful and informative. They should be able to tell you if the burial records are accessible and searchable. Stephen spoke to them today - unfortunatley they want £10 per cemetery search which as they pointed out will mean every cemetery in their jurisdiction as I cant give them a speciific location - sadly I will have to let this one drop as my finances dont stretch to that sort of money Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 20 November , 2006 Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Chris If the family lived at Mulgrave Street in Princes Park (as stated on CWGC) and brought him home to be buried, then in all likelihood he would be in Toxteth Cemetery as this is the nearest to their address. (Princes Park neighbours Toxteth). If not there, then Allerton cemetery is the next nearest. These two cover the south of the city, the remaining four cover the north. I don’t recognise “Mowbrey Street” as you have mentioned in your other data source. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 20 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 20 November , 2006 Stephen Thanks for the tip - will follow up on it tomorrow Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 21 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 21 November , 2006 Stephen Cheers mate they now doing a search for me chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Nulty Posted 22 November , 2006 Share Posted 22 November , 2006 Chris Let us know how this pans out. Always useful to know how a service operates and whether it's value for money. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 We might have found him - received a telephone message from Liverpool City Council on Weds They have the record of a GF Morris age 42 buried 30 Oct 1916 in Toxteth Cemetery CE Sect 2 grave 612 They turned my enquiry around in 24 hours; I was impressed to say the least & no charge for that part Now if some kind soul could visit the cemetery for me please & get a photo that should show if we have got the right bloke or not Now if it is the right bloke what further info will I need for the CWGC All The Best Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 The Liverpool Burial Records are contactable on 0151 233 5817 for anybody that needs to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 You will need to prove that both men are the same person and not simply two men with the same name. At the moment you don't have even that as the man in the grave is GF Morris and the man you are looking for is CF Morris - or is that a typo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 I don’t recognise “Mowbrey Street” as you have mentioned in your other data source. Stephen the Mowbrey St comes from the Coroner Records reference - can't be more exact that that as I have not seen the original records Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 You will need to prove that both men are the same person and not simply two men with the same name. At the moment you don't have even that as the man in the grave is GF Morris and the man you are looking for is CF Morris - or is that a typo? Terry that is the only Morris they have in Toxteth Cemetery for that period; the GF is not a typo on my behalf, but as the lady at the council said it could be their typo - Im hoping a view of the grave will show that is the right bloke with hopefully some of his details on the gravestone - I assume that I will need a copy of the burial register if this is the right Morris Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 24 November , 2006 Share Posted 24 November , 2006 You still have not proven that this is the same man - just somebody from the same city with (possibly) the same initials. You could start with his death certificate which has Ref No 2.b.101 from the Eastbourne Registration District. If this mentions the same NoK as is listed by CWGC, you know that CF Morris is not missing but is buried in the UK. Then if you can get any details (NoK name & address) from the Liverpool Burial Records, you can see if they match. If they do, you are there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 24 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 24 November , 2006 Thanks for the DC ref Terry - Will follow up on that ASAP Chirs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 1 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 1 December , 2006 Email from the Liverpool Records Office today confirms the grave location Section 2 grave 612 - the owner of the grave is Regina Morris They are sending me a copy of the relevant page of the order book & a copy of his obituary Bit of a result I think - will post up more when I get the docs in snail mail Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 6 December , 2006 Author Share Posted 6 December , 2006 Courtesy of Liverpool City Council The burial register shows the NOK as CWGC likewise the death notice - Terry would you like me to e mail you the relevant docs - the typo GF is confirmed from the burial register as George was originally inserted, but altered to Charles A result methinks Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 6 December , 2006 Share Posted 6 December , 2006 Chris Email me the relevant docs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 10 January , 2007 Author Share Posted 10 January , 2007 Terry any news with this one please Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 10 January , 2007 Share Posted 10 January , 2007 I always report any news. Silence = No News. These things can take weeks, months or years. Patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 13 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 13 February , 2007 Click Here for the latest news on this matter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisharley9 Posted 19 February , 2007 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2007 If you look at what follows I believe that there is strong evidence to show that both of these lads are buried somewhere in the UK; only 2 crew members of this ship died when this ship was sunk & both were washed ashore in Sussex Name: WHITE, JOSEPH WILLIAM Initials: J W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Trimmer Regiment/Service: Mercantile Marine Unit Text: S.S. "Alaunia" (Liverpool) Age: 16 Date of Death: 19/10/1916 Additional information: Son of John and Mary White, of 50, May's Cottages, Burke St., Canning Town, London. Born at West Ham. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Memorial: TOWER HILL MEMORIAL Reference: COR/1/3/392 Creation dates: 27 Oct 1916 UNKNOWN Scope and Content male, found on beach at Pevensey Bay, apparently a vessel's fireman, about 18; drowned following explosion on SS Alaunia, no evidence as to cause of explosion I received confirmation today from the E Sussex Records Office that the contents of this Coroners Report confirm that this indeed is indeed Joseph White & he is not buried at Pevensey; they believe his body was returned home for burial - anyone got any ideas what cemetery would serve Canning Town Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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