David_Blanchard Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 I was under the impression that the word 'chat' originated from the trenches of the Western Front. Men would 'chat' killing lice and talking during a lull in trench routine. However, in todays Guardian a letter bought by Chris de Burgh for £14,400 dating from the Christmas Truce of 1914 uses the term chat as though it was in common useage when he writes back home to his 'Mater': 'We also exchanged smokes etc and had a decent chat.' Was the word chat or chatting perhaps then, used as an expression in the Indian Army before the Great War? Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle bill Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 I too thought it was an expression born of the trenches. Expensive letter ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionboxer Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 The word "chit" or "chitty" is I believe of Indian origin meaning small piece of paper or note. Could chat be a derivision? Lionboxer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 I had a quick search and it seems chat is a shortened version of chatter which comes from:- c.1225, chateren "to twitter, gossip," earlier cheateren, chiteren, of echoic origin. Chatterbox is 1774. Evelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Blanchard Posted 8 November , 2006 Author Share Posted 8 November , 2006 Thanks for your replies. I wonder where the term chat meaning louse/lice comes from? David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eve Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 : oh you learn something new every day! I did not know that chats were also lice. Evelyn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cockney tone Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 Cannot verify this version but a couple of years ago i was told that 'Chat' is a type of drug once in common use in Africa, mainly Somalia/Ethipoia! and now used by some in the UK. Apparently you take the drug by chewing on the end of a chat root and this is enjoyed in a social environment sitting around with others talking laughing etc. therefore wnen you get a goup of them sitting around chewing the root and talking they are 'chatting'. Don't know if i believe it or not but I like this account of the word. regards, Scottie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Bennitt Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 No 'once' about it -- usually spelled 'khat'or 'qat', it's still consumed extensively in the Horn of Africa despite attempts to ban it, because it makes people so lethargic that no work is ever done. Studies have shown that it may boost male fertility, but can also cause liver disease. Around 20 million people use khat in East Africa and the Arabian peninsula, where trade is open and legal. It is legal in Britain, although some of its active substances are banned, and it is illegal in the United States, Canada, Norway and Sweden. According to Websters, the word 'chat' , meaning idle conversation, dates back to Middle English in the 15th century. cheers Martin B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SharonWitherden Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 I'm sure i've read somewhere that 'chats' comes from chattels which in the 18th/19th centuries referred to livestock and cattle. I believe the word became associated with the lice which infested beggars as these were the only 'chattels' they had. Sharon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 Cannot verify this version but a couple of years ago i was told that 'Chat' is a type of drug once in common use in Africa, mainly Somalia/Ethipoia! and now used by some in the UK. Apparently you take the drug by chewing on the end of a chat root and this is enjoyed in a social environment sitting around with others talking laughing etc. therefore wnen you get a goup of them sitting around chewing the root and talking they are 'chatting'. Don't know if i believe it or not but I like this account of the word. regards, Scottie. Qat..is the Name of the Drug,it is a Bush that grows Wild in Ethiopia and somalia,when chewed it has a strong Amphetamine effect. :The Somali Warlords dish it out to their Men as it Hypes them up and makes them Fearless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Greenfield Posted 8 November , 2006 Share Posted 8 November , 2006 The Oxford English Dictionary sites "Chat" as meaning lice as early as 1690. Chatts = lice. The first mention of "chat" meaning talk dates according to the OED to 1440. The York Mystery Play contains the line "I charge you and your chiftan [sic] bat ze [sic] chatt for no chaunce [sic]. In 1485, it sites "Thoughe I shulde all day tell Or chat with my ryme dogrell" [sic for all the mistakes]. The source appears to be "an onomatopoeic abbreviation of CHATTER. NMG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcderms Posted 13 November , 2006 Share Posted 13 November , 2006 It's another word our troops picked up in India I believe. A fellow or place that was lice-infested was 'chatty' and having 'a chat' was heading off to a quiet corner to de-louse. Holmes mentions this in both Tommy and Redcoat, I seem to recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pabbay Posted 19 November , 2006 Share Posted 19 November , 2006 Hi there, Heres another one for you. In Royal Naval parlance a rating who was scruffy/dirty (lousy?) was described as "chatty". It was also used as a derogatory term for a rating from the Chatham Division. My father (ex RN CPO) often used it to describe anything that was dirty or untidy eg a pub, room, worn shirt etc. Regards Pabbay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Bobscot Posted 26 February , 2020 Share Posted 26 February , 2020 On a tour of the Black Watch Museum in Perth, Scotland we were told that chit chat came from the time the regiment served in the trenches and referred to the sound that lice made (chit) when burnt with a hot wire run over the seams of clothing (chat). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Filsell Posted 18 March , 2020 Share Posted 18 March , 2020 (edited) Were not lice known as chats in common parlance - hence chatting ( as per rats and ratting)? Edited 19 March , 2020 by David Filsell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 18 March , 2020 Share Posted 18 March , 2020 Yes, and one of my grandfather's letters from 1917 refers to a bizarre case where a prankster put 2 lice (Chat) into his singlet just before inspection, presumably to shock the inspecting officer: "One dirty bunter put two in his singlet just before inspection. He used to have a look every 5 minutes to see poor Chat had not escaped." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMB1943 Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 WSL, Your letter raises another word, “bunter”. I can only recall Billy Bunter as a schoolboy hero in a comic book. Regards, JMB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TullochArd Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 (edited) …… great letter …. is it not "dirty brute"? Edited 28 March , 2020 by TullochArd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RNCVR Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 Agree, I read it as 'brute' also. Thanks, Bryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikB Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 'Chat' for an informal conversation was certainly in use long before 1914 - it's in the Pied Piper poem by Robert Browning of 1842, which you should all have heard at school... "Rats! They fought the dogs, and killed the cats, And bit the babies in the cradles, And eat the cheeses out of the vats, And licked the soup from the cooks' own ladles, Split open the kegs of salted sprats, Made nests inside men's Sunday hats, And even spoiled the women's chats By drowning their speaking With shrieking and squeaking In fifty different sharps and flats." I sometimes hear people describing the use of 'kids' for children as a modern Americanism, when several Kipling poems of the 1890s use it as a current idiom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteStarLine Posted 28 March , 2020 Share Posted 28 March , 2020 3 hours ago, TullochArd said: is it not "dirty brute"? Wow! After all these years, I completely agree with you and I misread it so many times ... Thanks for sharp eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithfazzani Posted 29 March , 2020 Share Posted 29 March , 2020 But what are chats in Browning’s poem? Surely not lice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidbohl Posted 29 March , 2020 Share Posted 29 March , 2020 Our feathered friends are Chats, sometime known as Chat-thrushes, perhaps they were local songbirds for the men. Dave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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