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andrew pugh

war diary 4th Bn royal Fusiliers 1914-1918

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andrew pugh

Hi All

I have a copy of the war diary for the Royal Fusiliers 4th Bn.If anyone needs any information on them.

Regards

Andy

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Teresa in Wirral

Hi

Trying to find out about one of my husbands great uncles who I am fairly sure is

Alfred H Bailey Private 4431 and 281828 of the 1st/4th London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers).

He was supposed to have enlisted under age I have details from "soldier died" but his service record wasn't to be found. Can you tell me anything about the service numbers???

He died on 9th September 1916 can you tell me what the Royal Fusiliers were doing that day.

Thank you

Teresa

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andrew pugh

Hi Teresa.

The diary doesnt mention any soldiers names throughout the whole diary,only one who seems to have caused a self inflicted wound.On the 9th Sept 1916 they were in the trenches in the area near a place called

Hulloch, in the left sector.The quote from the diary for that day says, Trenches, quiet night.Enemy Trench Mortars fairly active during the morning,and a few shells during the day. No casualties .10th Sept Quiet day No casualties.The only mention of a casualty for that month is recorded on the 13th.The diary says Usual Trench Mortars during the day 1 casualty.Hope this information helps,if you need any more just let me know.

Best Regards

Andy

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Teresa in Wirral

Thank you Andy for the extracts from the War Diary of the Royal Fusiliers.

I will have to find Hulloch on a french map. Interesting that there are no casualties listed for the 9th

when the date of death is listed as the 9th. I shall have to at some stage look at the Medal Rolls

and see if that gives any information, (having never looked at any I'm not sure if this is just wishful thinking!!)

Best wishes

Teresa

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andrew pugh

Hello Teresa.

The war diary I have is for the 4th BN Royal Fusiliers (City of London ) Regiment. Is this the Regiment your

fellow fought with,let me know if you need any more help.

Regards Andy.

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Teresa in Wirral
Hello Teresa.

The war diary I have is for the 4th BN Royal Fusiliers (City of London ) Regiment. Is this the Regiment your

fellow fought with,let me know if you need any more help.

Regards Andy.

Hi its says on the medal card and CWGC

4th London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers).

I do feel completely out of my depth trying to research various family members

who died in WW1 as I know very little about it and all these battalion numbers etc are very confusing.

Does it say in the War diary when the

battalion was formed? Alfred has two regiment numbers, the first quite low so presumably he joined up

with them fairly early on??

I'm off to Belfast to research my Irish relatives next week which seems easy in comparison!!!

Teresa

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Stebie9173

Teresa,

These two Regiments are sort of intertwined.

We have two rather confusing battalion names:

4th Battalion London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)

and

4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London) Regiment.

They are two seperate Regiments.

The Royal Fusiliers was a Regular London based Regiment with no Territorial battalions.

The London Regiment was a Territorial London-based Regiment with no Regular battalions!

The two Regiments were Associated with each other but not the same.

As your man has a low number and a high number this makes him a Territorial in the 4th London Regiment (let's ignore the Royal Fusiliers bit for clarity).

He would have received his new 6-digit number in 1917 when the Territorials were all renumbered (this did not happen for the "Regulars")

The Territorial battalions were basically part-time pre-war soldiers who were pressed into service (though they still volunteered for overseas service) at the start of the war. Some of these battalions went to replace Regular battalions in the Empire, others went to Gallipoli in early 1915 and some went quickly to the Western Front to replace the heavy losses in 1914 and early 1915.

Andy's 4th Royal Fusiliers War Diary does NOT pertain to your man's battalion. (In my opinion!)

Steve.

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leevis

Hi there

My great uncle was in 4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (Cit of London) Regiment. He was awarded the DCM on 16/05/16 and died (KIA) at France & Flanders on 06/11/16. Do you have any information on either of these dates? His number was L/14430 and his name was Charles W Wheeler.

Many thanks

Lee

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Stebie9173

Andy/Lee,

For your info:

C W Wheeler's D.C.M. was Gazetted on 16-5-1916 so probably in early months of 1916.

Steve.

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leevis

Where do these war diaries come from? I would love to get my hands on one.

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andrew pugh

Hello Lee.

Your in luck about your fellow, he was killed on the 6th November 1916 in the trenches to the West of SERRE. The entry in the Diary for that day says,and I quote,Very Wet-further work done on trenches.

C.S.M Wheeler and three men killed in a dugout by a delay action shell. I hope this will help you understand

how he and his fellow soldiers died.If you need any more information please ask.

Best Regards Andy.

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leevis

Nice one, very VERY interesting indeed. How could I get hold of the thing that you have? Is is commercially available?

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Stebie9173

Lee,

Most War Diaries are not commercially available (the only ones I can think of off hand are the Royal Berkshires & Wiltshires via the Wardrobe website).

War Diaries are the original daily/monthly summary of events written by the adjutant of the battalion on behalf of the Commanding Officer. These are hand written documents (though sometimes you see typed ones) written at the time in indelible pencil. These are stored at the National Archives, and a good proportion of Regimental Musuems have at least a copy and/or transcript.

They are free to view at the National Archives at Kew, and since the advent of digital cameras it has been a lot easier to take copies, as camera use is free at the NA providing you are registered to do so (a 5 minute exercise).

Non-officers are rarely mentioned (the exception being the occasional Company Sergeant Major, as you have seen!).

Steve.

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leevis

Nice one, looks like me and Gramps will be over to Kew at some point very soon :) (lucky we live close!). One question though, at the National Archives you can see what is there ie the WO ref.

I cant seem to find anything for 4th Battalion Royal Fusiliers (City of London), there is plenty on 1/2, 2 Battalion London Regiment but I dont think that this is the correct one.

Any ideas?

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Stebie9173

You need to search the Catalogue.

You'll get four boxes. Ignore the middle two that refer to dates.

Enter: 4 AND Royal Fusiliers in the top box

Enter: WO95 in the bottom box.

Click Search.

Voila:

WO 95/1431 9 Infantry Brigade: 4 Battalion Royal Fusiliers 1914 Aug. - 1919 Apr.

When you go to Kew.: Allow yourself loads of time. The NA is the Thief of Time. Read the Rules on the NA website. (Pencils only, no rubbers, no flash photos, etc.). Strict but fair... Take ID for everyone going. You also need to have a photo taken for the ID, I'm told (Mine is pre-photo). Use the camera stands for your Digital camera if at all possible. Nothing worse than getting home with fuzzy pics.

I usually take photos on 5mp quality but 3mp could be ok. I have 1 x 256mb and 1 x 512mb cards and get about 600 pics. That can be the size of a battalion war diary serving 1914 to 1919 !!!

Steve.

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andrew pugh

Hello Lee.

Its nice to get a piece of accurate information on a soldier and what happened to him, sounds like you were

pleased. if you need any more info let me know.

Andy

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leevis

Hi guys

Just a quick status on this one. I went to Kew and photographed each page which was quite fun. Managed to get 400+ images. Printed out about half (printer ink issues) and gave these to my Grandad who was most pleased.

The snag i have is that it is very hard to decipher. I have managed to do a fair bit but some of it is really difficult to work out.

Is there a translated txt file somewhere or am i going to have to do it the hard way?

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roy litchfield

Hello Andy,

I would be very grateful if you could check if there is anything on

GS - 49144, Pte. W. Greenwood, MM and 2 bars.

All 3 awards won in 1918.

Best wishes Roy

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Chris_Baker
Is there a translated txt file somewhere or am i going to have to do it the hard way?

The hard way - also called the interesting part!

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andrew pugh

Hello Roy

There is no mention of your fellow personaly ,in fact it doesnt mention any private soldier only one who caused a self inflicted wound.The only mention of any awards was on the 11th august 1918,and it says

B.G.C. 9th Brigade presented medal ribbons were issued to N.C.Os and men who were recently awarded

honours.The presentation took place after church service. On that day there location was LOZINGHEM.

Sorry but thats all the information I can give.

Regards Andy.

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roy litchfield

Thanks for looking Andy, Seems a shame that a chap earns 3 MMs and doesn't get a mention in the war diary! The MM and pair is still in the family with the grandson.

All the best Roy

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andrew pugh

Hello Roy.

Try contacting the Royal Fusilier Museum at the Tower of London They should be very helpful.

ask for the archavist Jim Kelleher.

Best of luck.

Andy

p.s. If you need any more info at any time please ask.

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roy litchfield

Thanks Andy, will pass on info. to G/son

Roy

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punjab612

Hi Andy

Would love to see extract of War Diaries for 26/3/1916 to 31/3/1916 the actions at St Eloi craters. My Grandfather was with the other lot (1st Nortumberland Fus) on the right flank. I have NF war diaries but would like to get Royal Fuiliers perspective of the action.

This ias also the action where Noel Mellish (Chaplain 9th Inf Bde) won his VC so would also be interested in any references to this.

Many thanks

Peter

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Allan Grant

We are researching the service of Captain Frederick .W.A. Steele an Australian who served with the 4th Battalion City of London fusiliers. He was a member of the Melbourne Cricket Club as were his three brothers. Only one survived the war so the club is researching the brothers with a view to writing a story on the family. We know Frederick was KIA on October 26 at Neuve Chapelle. I noticed that Lt Col Andrew Pugh on this forum had war diaries about this date. We would appreciate any information that may be available about Captain Frederick Steele. 

 

Allan Grant

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