Does this fictitious story of a fallen soldier ...

[Aurel Sercu]

To all those among you who like a "nice story"...

I have been asked to be a member of a jury reading a number of papers (essays) written by high-school students (Ypres) in a contest, related to the Great War.

I have at last finished the job (there were 150 to read), and a couple of them have caught my attention. (Many more I try to forget as soon as possible )

There is one that I really cannot get out of my mind. Because I find it quite good (an original approach), but most of all : I have the feeling that this "original" approach is ... not that original.

This is what the student wrote about. (One and a half pages, but I'll summarize of course.)

***

The story is told by a fallen British soldier, with a first person narrator. (That point of view (told by a dead soldier) is not that unusual of course : think if J. McCrae's In Flanders Fields the poppies blow.)

He tells that he fell in the hell of Flanders fields. No one knows where he is. He is cold, hungry ... And lonely ... Some time ago comrades that were lying around him were found and taken away. He constantly has nightmares. And hopes that one day he will be found so that he can rest in peace.

And then, one day, he hears noise and machines over him. His remains are found. And someone reads his name tag.

He is taken to a British cemetery, where he is buried with his comrades. Hunger, cold are gone. Loneliness too. For each day dozens of people pass near his grave. One day a family stands at his grave. A child asks his dad who that grave is. The man answers, "This is your greatgrandfather's brother ..."

After all these years he "sees" his family. Now at last he can sleep without nightmares.

***

I must say I found this approach extremely good, and was (am) inclined to give high marks. There is however one thing that bothers me : This story seems so familiar to me. But ... I cannot for the life of me remember when or where or in what form I must have read that. Not even if it was years or months ago. Was it a short story ? (Party of) a novel ? A poem ? A movie ?

It is clear that my evaluation of this essay very much depends on its originality, or lack of it.

Does anyone among you have a "déjà entendu" too, like me ?

One detail : the name on the tag with the soldier is : John Doe. (And yes, I know what "John Doe" stands for in English... That the student used that specific name in his essay makes it even more puzzling.)

Aurel

[Peter B]

Hello Aurel, nothing springs to mind at the moment.

I found it quite an intresting story line, and looks like a lot of effot has been put into it.

John Doe seems rather Americian, and I agree rather a strange choice.

By the way, was the students 'original' written in English?

Regards

Peter

[Aurel Sercu]

Peter,

No, the students wrote their essays in Dutch (Flemish).

(If it had been in English maybe I would have posted it (anonymously).)

And it is a nice story, indeed. And a moving approach and surprising point of view.

What bothers me is : suppose that it is an original story indeed, and that I am wrong... that I have never read or heard something similar ... (After all, it does happen that the human mind is 100% sure that something happened whereas in fact it did not happen) ... Then giving lower marks would be quite unfair, wouldn't it ?

Aurel

[Dragon]

One detail : the name on the tag with the soldier is : John Doe. (And yes, I know what "John Doe" stands for in English... That the student used that specific name in his essay makes it even more puzzling.)

Apologies if I seem naive, but I'm not sure what you mean. I thought it was used to mean someone anonymous, whose name was unknown or lost. In the UK we might say, A.N.Other. So in this case, it's used for a man who was unknown and anonymised by circumstances (though not a very subtle or imaginative device).

Are you judging the piece on its literary merits (its qualities of language, style, narrative and structure) or its historical accuracy, or what? Can you make a criteria based assessment?

Gwyn

[Aurel Sercu]

Gwyn,

You're right, that's what I thought what John Doe meant indeed. But that is exactly what I find odd in this essay. Why would someone write a story like : "I am an English soldier. My name is "Known to God" (...) Here I lie, unknown (...) The man who finds me takes my tag and reads "John Doe". At last I hear my name after all these years."

I find that puzzling. It's like saying : "I am an English soldier. Someone finds my tag, and it says : "Anonymous". At last I hear my name."

Somehow I wonder if the student who wrote this, and "invented" (?) the name, knows the meaning of "John Doe".

(Mind you, I recall reading or hearing a similar story, but I do not recall what the name was in the "original" story. Was it John Doe there too ? No idea.)

What we are judging ? Not so much the language. Style a bit more. But especially the originality, ... authenticity,... structure,... a compelling story,... the theme (i.e. What is the image of the WW1 soldiers who gave their lives that should go down in history for future generations)...

Historical accuracy is not a prerequisite. (Though when I see that some confuse WW1 and WW2 ...)

Aurel

[gporta]

I feel that the author has chosen the "John Doe" name intending to be symbolic... Remember the Frank Capra's film "meet John Doe"? there a character was referred to by that name.

Gloria

[Sue Light]

Aurel

I have exactly the same feelings as you. I seem to remember the story as follows [but I know not from where]

A soldier is buried in a British cemetery in France/Flanders, and watches all the visitors coming - he has some of his comrades buried at his side, and sees their relatives coming - 'Bert's son' or similar. But no-one ever comes for him. There are descriptions of the peaceful setting etc. etc. The whole story is told in the first person, in a regional dialect sort of monologue. I know your deja entendu is correct.

I have quite a clear memory of it, and strangely, my hard disc throws up the following reply to you, after a similar post? No idea when this was, or if it was connected, and it's not actually this poem that I'm thinking of, but wonder what it was that you wrote that got me sending this. [How confusing - I have a feeling I'm suffering from something old-age related ]

Sue

Aurel

Sorry that I can't answer the question, but your posting reminded me of this poem, with a similar theme [but a bit more brutal!] - I always find it rather reassuring when thinking about the 'missing.' It's by Martin Southall:

Requiescat in Pace

Silenced by well-hid sniper

he spreadeagled the slit-trench bottom.

Shed no tears for him, for

he has a resting-place of panoramic view

carefully sited

tactically sound

with excellent field of fire.

For him

no quick-tossed clods of earth

to press him into nothingness.

He shall be exposed

to all the changing seasons

and the gentle soothing rain

and he shall lie at peace – forever.

Or at least, until

the War Graves people

bag him up

move him

[Sue Light]

Gwyn

It wasn't something that you wrote was it? My brain is connecting you with it somehow, but I'm sure you would have recognised it, if it was.

Sue

[Aurel Sercu]

Thanks, Gloria and Sue

I really don't know what to think anymore... At a given moment I even thought that I was simply wrong ... That I was just imagining things ... That this feeling of déjà vu was just a deceitful illusion.

And at my age, with short term memory and long term memory becoming a bit chaotic....

And this "John Doe" makes the whole thing even more complicated. Meant symbolically ? Mmm possible ... And yet ... If I had invented the story I certainly would never have used a name like that (Jan Janssens in Flemish, or Dingemans). I would have taken a "real" (fictitious) name ... Not just something like "Anybody" ... Or maybe I would have used no name at all...

I'll think about it ... and think about it ... and think about it.

And then will give up.

And give the boy or girl the benefit of the doubt.

Aurel

[Sue Light]

Aurel

This is what I was thinking of [or I think I was thinking of]

From the 'Aftermath' web site:

http://www.aftermathww1.com/charlesworth2.asp

Sue

[MartinWills]

I think I tend to agree with Aurel over "benefit of the doubt". It sounds to me like an inspired piece of writing and I wonder if pieces like the one Sue links provided some of the inspiration and the author added some excellent detail to turn an idea into a fine piece.

One story I always remember is a single mum or widow loosing her one and only cherised son to an unknown grave plunging her into sadness and frustration at the virtually unrecognised loss whilst the son himself had been recovered as an unknown soldier and chosen to be transported home, honoured by royalty, national leaders and the masses and buried in a place of high honour in Westminster Cathedral as his mother wept.

I am sure there are more, but it sounds as if the young writer may simply have taken something as a starting piece and developed something original.

There are, somewhere, websites that are used by academics to check for plagiarism in student essays by searching on excerpts, but I like the idea of giving the benefit of any little doubt - particularly forum pals haven't identified an obvious source.

[Guest mruk]

Hello Aurel,

I would tend to agree with some of the previous comments and give the 'benefit of doubt'. It's inevitable in some works that there will be a degree of influence from elsewhere, but it also depends on the criteria on which these essays have been judged and marked, and how your institution defines 'plagiarism'. I'm sure this was certainly the case, but did the university-institution set out clear guidelines of what was expected of the student, and why it is important that the student read or seek advice if not fully sure of the terms and conditions. Was it stated at the outset that any references need to be noted and duly acknowledged-even when taken from the internet-and that any notes should be kept for future reference, should they need to be backed up. It is a bit of a predicament, and on the one hand, you may have something highly original, and on the other, you could be passing something fradulent and fake. Perhaps you would be kind enough to post the work once the winner of the competition has been announced?

Kind Regards,

Dave

PS: Is the work judged and marked anonymously? If not, is it worth having an informal chat with the student on the pretext that you are discussing the work of a number of entries? It's a bit sneaky, but may help to settle any doubts.

[Willywombat]

My bet is they've got it off the net, probably from an American source (hence the John Doe reference). You can get most of the GCSE coursework on there now, along with university coursework. The very fact that you suspect it may be a cheat (even though you can't prove it) means, whatever you do, don't give it a high mark! The logic is simple:

If it is indeed plagiarised the writer isn't going to argue if he doesn't win.

If it does happen to be original - again, the writer will almost certainly not argue if he doesn't win. Even if he does complain, with the unavoidably subjective assessment of a story-writing competition, you can always find reasons for it not to have won.

If, however, you risk giving it a high mark, think of the possible consequences:

The winning story is probably going to be published somewhere, or at least read out. Someone may spot it as not being original. You will then look rather silly for having allowed it to win! Not only that, but there will controversy and argument and possibly you'll have to re-award the prize and the whole affair will get very smelly. The credibility of the competition will suffer and you may not be able to run it again.

The only logical answer is therefore to banish it to a position in the lower half of the rankings, nicely in with the mass of also-rans.

Job's a good 'un!

[ianw]

I tend to agree that the John Doe reference would indicate an American source for at least part of the story or concept. However we may be doing the student a disservice. The story is a fairly simple one and I can conceive that someone would come up with it unaided even though other versions exist - and then choose the name from an American source. What a conundrum.

[frontline]

I recall a ww2 film i saw of an aircrew from a B25 crashed in North Africa & 1 by 1,the bodies were recovered,all but one,hidden under the tail.All the ghostly aviators disappeared & left this one guy on his own(until found!).Cant recall the title.

As someone who has dealt with essays etc,on a juvenile level,I would merit this essay on content & originality.I would give him/her an 8 but,I'd love to read the rest of it!!!!

Also,ask his/her teacher about the childs literary history,if you still have doubts.

[Dragon]

Gwyn

It wasn't something that you wrote was it? My brain is connecting you with it somehow, but I'm sure you would have recognised it, if it was.

Sue

No. I've never written a short story based on the Great War or indeed any dead people.

***

Aurel, you're not the only judge, are you? So as you don't have sole responsibility for determining the outcome, I think I'd be inclined to go with your intuition and if you enjoyed the piece and are reasonably happy the whole work isn't plagiarised, commit yourself to assessing it on the impression it made on you.

I don't know the age of the student, but there are limits to how wholly original any but the most talented of teenagers can be.

Gwyn

[Marco]

Somehow I wonder if the student who wrote this, and "invented" (?) the name, knows the meaning of "John Doe".

The effect of American TV crime series on our youth? Every unknown is John Doe or Jane Doe.

Regards,

Marco

[steve fuller]

I gree that it probably came from the internet somewhere but if you cannot trace it, then there seems little choiuce but to give good marks as it would be unfair to penalise them without evidence wouldnt it?

Nice story too by the way! Liked it a lot!

[healdav]

The names J0hn D0e and R0bert R0e were used in English law fr0m the Middle Ages as a psud0nym in vari0us cases.

The practice has n0w died 0ut, but is alive and well in the USA. Y0ur student has pr0bably seen it used n s0me American p0lice series.

Srry abut the lack f vwels. My keybard is very ill.

[Gibbo]

I think that the John Doe name actually makes it less likely that it's been plaigarised. A British author probably wouldn't use that name & an American probably wouldn't set such a story in WWI, although I suppose that it could have been adapted from a story set in a different war. Most likely, the student has, as suggested earlier, picked up the name from US TV programmes or films & doesn't realise the differences between UK & US English. And there are people called Doe. I've got a friend with that surname. In the absence of any real evidence to the contrary, I think that it has to be assumed that it's an honest entry & marked accordingly. If you still have lingering doubts, then you said that there were a couple that stood out so you could mark it second & the other first.

And has anybody tried to find the alleged original on-line? I have & can't find it.

[Aurel Sercu]

Please don't think I have forgotten my own thread, but it's just that right now I ambusy going through ... essays. I 'll try and come back and reply later today.

(And my doubts still linger. Not less than before....)

Aurel

[Aurel Sercu]

I'm back !

Thanks, Sue, Martin, Dave, Willywombat, Ianw, frontline, Gwyn, Marco, Steve, Healdav and Gibbo !

Just some answers to a few questions that were asked in your postings.

It is not really my intention to expose the writer, or accuse him of plagiarism. All I want is satisfy my own curiosity. Have I read this story somewhere else, and where ? And also : I am always critical towards my own déjà vu experiences. So here too I wondered : could I be wrong ? (After all the human mind and human memory is a strange machine.)

I am also very well aware that somehow 100% originality is an illusion. All artists somehow commit "plagiarism", unconsciously I mean. Think of music composers. It is indeed possible that the student somehow picked up the general idea, and developed it into something. However, I am very sure that what I read elsewhere also had two specific points in the story :

- The fallen soldier being aware that he is being found after all these years and that someone identifies him

- The fact that at last his relatives are standing at his grave.

And these two were clearly present in the student's work.

Dave,

- No, as far as I know it was not stated at the outset that any refences to sources needed to be noted.

- Posting the story later ? Mmm, there are some arguments not to do that (unless the author consents to it). But also this : the essay is in Dutch (Flemish).

- No, not really 100% anonymous correction, but I myself (and the other members of the jury) do not know the students, even if we have the name. Contacting the author 'sneakily' ? Might be a good idea...

Gwyn,

The age category is 16-18 years

Let me also add this : this is NOT in the first place something that will decide who the ultimate winner will be in the contest. As I said : I want to satisfy my curiosity. And blame myself for not being able to remember where and when I read it. I have an age that many people start worrying about their short term memory...

Aurel

[John_Hartley]

Aurel

Perhaps you confuse the story with some of the "spooky experiences" that get reported here that have the similar feeling of a man being "discovered". The sort of post made where someone walks through a cemetery and just happens to look down and the headstone has the same name as they do and its the same day as the man was killed. Not identical but something may be there in your memory.

The use of "John Doe" would be an American import into British English and, presumably, is into Dutch.

John

John

[Aurel Sercu]

1. Perhaps you confuse the story with some of the "spooky experiences" that get reported here that have the similar feeling of a man being "discovered". The sort of post made where someone walks through a cemetery and just happens to look down and the headstone has the same name as they do and its the same day as the man was killed. Not identical but something may be there in your memory.

2. The use of "John Doe" would be an American import into British English and, presumably, is into Dutch.

John,

1. Personally I don't think I do. But of course my 61 year "young" memory may play tricks on me...

2. No John Doe in Dutch (Flemish). We would say something like "Jan Jansen", or "Dingemans". I would even find it surprising if someone here (student or not) knew the name John Doe. Except maybe indeed, if from a TV serials, a young boy or girl ?

Aurel

[zooloo]

John Doe would suggest to me an American origin. John Smith being more British to my mind.