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Remembered Today:

Not found on the CWGC website.


Tony Lund

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A report that appeared in the Holmfirth Express on November 29th 1919, poses more questions than it answers. Apart from his name on the local memorial it is the only reference I have found so far to the death of Private George Frederick Heppenstall, son of Mr. J. W. Heppenstall from the Brent House area of Hepworth, Holmfirth.

There is no date of death given, the unit number seems strange and I cannot find a Heppenstall mic that even remotely matches the number or unit given.

The newspaper information is this,- Private G. Heppenstall 60817, 2-1 Yorkshire Hussars, stationed in County Cork, Ireland. Was one of a number who sustained severe injury as a result of an explosion and died within 24 hours. He was twenty-four years old and had enlisted just over three years ago and served most of that time in Ireland. Before the war he was a piecener at Dover Mills.

A letter from his officer, who hopefully knows the man’s correct name and number says this:

“Please accept my sincere condolences and regrets at the untimely death of No. 60817 Private G. Heppenstall. I feel sure it will be a source of gratification to you to know he died doing his duty. It was a pure accident for which no one was to blame. Pte. Heppenstall was a good soldier and an excellent man, and I can assure you all possible precautions were adopted to avoid anything of the nature of an accident happening.”

From the sound of that report a number of men may well have been killed, but I have not seen any report of a body being returned to Holmfirth, so any dead will presumably have been buried in somewhere in Cork.

Private George Frederick Heppenstall is named on the Hade Edge section of the Holme, Holmfirth and New Mill Memorial.

Tony.

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Tony

If he only served in Ireland, I don't think there'll be a MIC.

I'll be interested to see Terry's comment about CWGC eligibility. Death after the armistice and unrelated to anything that happened pre-armistice?

John

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Hi Tony,

I have checked the lists of the two main military cemetery's here in the Cork City area and no info on Pte Heppenstall, Collins Barracks and Ballincollig Military Cemetery have family listings as well as army.

I know you would have said, but is there any other info re-location in Co Cork.

Regards,

Sean

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John

If he was in the military and died before 31.08.21, then elegibility is not in question. If he died after leaving service, his death before that date would have to be dependant on death being service related.

But I know you know that, so I may have misunderstood the question!

Ireland makes no difference. Location of death is irrelevant in all circumstances.

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Terry

No you hadnt you misunderstood. But, you're right, I should have remembered that being in uniform meant absolute eligibility.

Would I be right, then, in thinking that someone joining the army in, say, 1919 (never having served before) and dying in 1920 would still qualify for war graves status?

In terms of this case, it might be worth seeing if any Irish Pals could check if there were newspaper reports in Cork which included the names of any other army fatalities.

John

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John

Yes you would be right in thinking that.

They could have joined on 30.08.21 and been run over next day and still qualify. It is an absolute.

Two questions have to receive a positive answer.

1) Was the person in a Commonwealth armed force at the time of death? = YES

and

2) Was death between the qualifying dates? = YES

Two 'yeses' = automatic qualification.

I have a feeling (no more than that) that a number of men who died in Ireland 1914-21 were missed from the army's lists. Immediately post-WW1, it was not entirely understood by the military authorities that IWGC would be commemorating ALL deaths (provided they qualified) and some clerks seem to have made judgements erroneously as to who went on the lists. Service in Ireland could fall into this category along with other UK service. I know of a few rebel action related deaths not listed yet.

This was certainly the case with executed men. The army thought they did not qualify and so did not supply the names. CWGC had to request the names much later. It was only then that the authorities realised the implications and, during WW2, ensured that men due to be hanged (by civil courts) were discharged the day before sentence was carried out! Therefore, they died as civilians who do not qualify.

Of course, the rules for post-discharge and the Recognised Civilian Organisation deaths are more complicated. They often require a subjective decision in both cases (ie was the death post-discharge caused by service and, with the RCOs, was death on duty and due to a war cause. In either case it is not always clear.)

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Hi Tony,

I will check the local registrars office here in Cork on Monday to find out where those death certs would be held. I know the Registrar General Office in Dublin hold death certs for the Irish men who were killed overseas but as the death was local they may be held here.

Regards,

Sean.

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I know you would have said, but is there any other info re-location in Co Cork.

Regards,

Sean

Thank you, but the only information at the moment is that he died in Cork from an accidental explosion. Nothing further.

He is certainly not in CWGC.

If you get his death certificate, we may get an answer there. If he qualifies, we can progress it.

All I know is George Frederick Heppenstall died in Cork in 1919. I do not even know where to apply for a death certificate. As pointed out Ireland will have been home service at that time but who has the deaths register? London or some town registry office in Cork? Or will both have a copy?

If someone can point me in the right direction I will happily spend the money for a death certificate, I have gone too far into Holmfirth’s wartime history to be put off by a £7 fee.

Tony.

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Thank you Sean. I think getting hold of this death certificate will be one of those things that are only easy if you have already done it once.

Tony.

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Hi Tony,

The local register office here in Cork cant help as their files are not computerised prior to 1924. I have searched the death notices for the month of November 1919 but no Heppenstall listed, it may have been in Oct but I ran out of time. The register office in Roscommon is your best bet as linked in Terry's post. They do a 3 year search around the date you give them and nine times out of ten they find what you want, it can take about four weeks. If you have not allready contacted them I could add Pte Heppenstal's name to a list that I will be sending off to them next Monday, just let me know, in the mean time I will check out some other dates on the papers.

regards,

Sean.

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Thank you, I am grateful for your assistance, I have sent an application to Roscommon.

Now that I am looking at men who died at the end of the war I am finding a few who cannot be traced using the normal methods that I have become familiar with. So this is unfamiliar territory. I would also like to find out where he is buried. If fact he is one of five from Holmfirth whose burial place I do not know, there is one in Glasgow, one somewhere in Holmfirth and one in Australia, and then two in Ireland, Private Heppenstall and a merchant seaman. None of them have a CWGC headstone so no help there.

Thanks again,

Tony.

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Hi Tony,

The merchant seaman that you mention in your post, have you named him before and any idea what part of Ireland he may be buried.

Regards,

Sean.

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Sean -

In November 1916, the SS Connemara collided with the SS Retriever in Carlingford Lough. Both ships sank and 94 lives were lost, one of them was Holmfirth's John Beever.

Before the war twenty-two year old John Beever worked in his father’s textile business, at Swan Bank Mill, Holmfirth, but his real interest was always radio.

When the war broke out he was medically rejected, first by the army, and then by the navy, so he applied to be registered as a wireless operator; and he did so well in the examinations that the Royal Naval Air Service offered him a commission. But once again he failed the medical.

He then took a job as a wireless operator with the London and North Western Railway Company’s ferry service, where he had near miss from torpedoes on more than one occasion during the two years that he served with them before his death.

He joked that the first time he ever needed to send out a SOS call would also be the last, and this proved to be the case. His body was later recovered and identified by a relative, but I do not know where he was buried, but I have not seen any reports of a funeral over here.

Tony.

Simon - I do not know any more about Private Heppenstall than the bit given above.

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Hi Tony,

many thanks for the information on John Beever. It will not be an easy task to find his buriel place, can I just ask is there any indication as to the location when the relative identified John's remains.

It's ironic that some things said in jest turn into reality.

Regards,

Sean.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Tony,

You may already have this information, as I received it from forum member Oak, the 2/1 Yorkshire Hussars were stationed in Ireland during the war and were in Fermoy Town, North Cork in 1918, so they may have stayed on into 1919, in fact the last british troops left Fermoy in spring 1922.

Fermoy had been a Garrison town from as early as 1798 up to 1998 and in 1918 there were almost 10,000 troops stationed in Fermoy and the other barracks around the town.

I have a request in for information from a local historian in Fermoy and as soon as I hear anything I will post again.

While doing some reading about Fermoy I did come across the mention of an incident when some men were killed on the 9th September 1919, now this may have nothing to do with Pte Heppenstall, so I will just wait for more information.

Kind regards,

Sean

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I have had a reply from the Register Office in Ireland and I will include it below, but it does not help much. Why the letter mentions Dublin or Thomas Eccles I really don’t know. I think I need to find a reference number of some sort first for George Frederick Heppenstall and then I might get somewhere. I think it is time to try a search of national newspapers like the Times. An explosion that killed a least one men in Ireland in 1919 may well be considered newsworthy and the same applies to the death of John Beever. In that case there may be a report that includes what happened to the bodies that were recovered from the Connemara.

So far as George Frederick Heppenstall is concerned I need to find his name on an index somewhere for deaths in 1919.

This is the letter from Roscommon, it is not a scanning error this is the way it is written:

“I wish to refer to your application for the death of George Frederick Heppenstall, Private 60817 in the British Army who died in Dublin in 1919 in County Cork. I have carried out a search in the civil records held here in the General Register Office for a Thomas Eccles for the years 1915 -1920 and unfortunately I have to report that no entry has been located corresponding with the details submitted.

This Office maintains a Register which has recorded Births Deaths and Marriages of Irish subjects who were serving with the British Forces throughout the world. These records would have been collected and returned by the military to the General Register Office on a routine basis at that time. There is no record of George in this Register either and I feel that if he was an English subject serving with the British Army in Ireland perhaps this entry may have been recorded in a similar Register which is probably kept in the General Register Office in the UK, website www.gro.gov.uk or at least they may be able to direct you to where ever such Military records are retained.”

Sean,-

Thanks for the information, I was waiting for the Death Certificate before going further with this, but now it seems I am going to have to dig for it, so any information is useful information right now.

Tony.

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post-8617-1164326766.jpg

Hi Tony,

This is a photo of the memorial stone erected in Kilkeel graveyard where the unidentified victims of the collision are buried, it appears from reports that the identified victims may have been taken home.

I hope I am not duplicating info that you have.

Regards,

Sean.

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Sean -

Thanks again, this is all useful information and much appreciated.

I am still having a problem with George Frederick Heppenstall’s death certificate, he must be registered somewhere. Hopefully I can find some more information from the newspapers.

Tony.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi Tony,

I have just recived a copy of a death cert for George Heppenstall.

It reads Twentysixth of September 1919 District Hospital, Castlecomer Co Kilkenny. George Heppenstall from Holmfirth near Huddersfield, Private Yorkshire Hussars. Died of Burns after one and a half days shock.

I am giving you the information in case the cert wont upload, but we will try, it will be in two halfs. I will also try and e-mail it to you.

Regards,

Sean.

PS I dont know much about Castlecomer at this time but I will find out.

S.

post-8617-1165242487.jpg

post-8617-1165242588.jpg

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Hello Sean,

Thank you very much indeed, it does seem that George Heppenstall died while a Private in the army during 1919. I think we need Terry’s wisdom now.

Thanks again,

Tony.

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