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i dont suppose?


jamesbow
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hi all,

been searching to try to find why my father was jailed on the 26 may 1908 for 19 days?.

he was serving on hms topaze at this time.i have tried all local papers etc but no records.i had a look on na site but i was totaly confused if or what records they had in their logs.do any members know where hms topaze was on that date, it would help narrow down county;country etc many thanks jameswbow.ps or point me in the right direction at the na.

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JamesBow

I searched the NA too and found no reference to HMS TOPAZE nor TOPAZ. Nor on Google,except an 1810 entry on a Japanese website,but the laguage was not readable !

Was the jail a civil penalty or a naval one ?

Is there anything else you can add to help us along the way,any small fact may make the difference between helping you and not !

Best wishes

Sotonmate

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hi sotonmate,

all it reads on his service record is :26th may 1908 CP 19days,

10th august 1909 C 7 days

from the 6th oct 1906 til the 8th august 1909 it shows he was on the topaze.

i have looked at all the local papers at the court records etc in case he was back home on leave doing some poaching,but no sign.he was still poaching well into his eighties?.

all the best jamesbow

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hi all,i will try the na records see if it shows up anything,will let you all know.

many thanks to you all jamesbow.

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JB

I think it was a Naval Penalty then. Perhaps he was poaching the Navy's rum supply ! You can't blame a man for that !

When I am next in the Library I will try to find Topaze in Jane's Fighting Ships for 1908 to get a few details.

Have you thought of looking at the Imp War museum or Nat Maritime Museum records on line ? They might have something about the ship,or maybe a logbook/diary for that period.

Sotonmate

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I searched the NA too and found no reference to HMS TOPAZE nor TOPAZ.

James

I don't know what details were entered in the Ships Log but those for TOPAZE are at the NA, Kew.

ADM 53/27839 covers 4th December 1906 to 21st May 1908.

ADM 53/27840 covers 22nd May 1908 to 9th August 1909.

May be worthwhile having a look.

Link to the 'hits' on the NA Catalogue is Here

Hope this helps.

Steve

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  • 1 year later...

I can't help but my grandad was a cook on HMS Topaze. He was invalided out when a shell went into the hold whilst he was hauling up cordite.

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Clive.

Checked but couldn't find a mention in The Times of the shell going into the hold of the TOPAZE. Was it during war time? Do you know the approximate year?

In relation to the original poster, jamesbow (if you are still around), here are some snippets:

The Times, Tuesday, Jan 05, 1904

Naval Progress

Ships launched during 1903:

Topaze, 3rd class cruiser, 3000 tons displacement, 9800 LHP, Laird Normandy boilers, launched July 23. Sister ship Amethyst, Mod. Yarrow boilers, launched Nov 5.

In a later article, the length, beam and draught of the TOPAZE are given as 360, 40 and 14½ respectively.

The Times, Tuesday, Jan 14, 1908

The TOPAZE, cruiser, of the Channel Fleet, will be

transferred on January 20 to the Home Fleet, and will fly

the broad pennant of Commodore L. Bayly, commanding

the Nore Permanent Destroyer Flotilla, which is at

present flown by the ATTENTIVE, scout. The TOPAZE is

at present at Chatham undergoing her annual refit.

The Times, Tuesday, Jun 30, 1908

Home Fleet Mobilization

Yesterday, and again to-day, the process of

completing to war strength the nucleus crew

ships of the Home Fleet is being carried out at

the naval ports as a preliminary to the exercise

and manoeuvres which will take place from July 1

to July 21 in home waters..

DESTROYER FLOTILLA

Eastern Group

Commodore Lewis Bayly in command (Topaze).

Protected cruiser Topaze (3,000)..

Given that your father was jailed 26 May 1908, I wonder if he simply went AWOL prior to the TOPAZE being brought up to strength in preparation for the mobilization of the Home Fleet for annual manoeuvres. For 1908, 19 days doesn't sound like it was anything too serious.

Does anyone know if the National Archives (UK) has anything like the Punishment Returns for RAN ships held by the NAA?

regards,

Martin

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James,

The C notation is for "Confinement in cells".

The C.P. notation is for "Conviction by civil power or cases dealt with by an order under Probation of Offenders Act".

Kings Regulations & Admiralty Instructions.

David.

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thank you all very much for the added information,just wished i had taken more notice what father told me as a boy.i am still around i have been pretty unwell though (have a long term illness)but i am on here most days reading all posts,its very addictive and the knowledge you guys give out is exceptional.

i guess i,m a bit of a hanger back type most of the time.once i am feeling a bit better i will go to chatham and have a dig around.in a way i am so lucky that my father wrote so many letters to his parents/wife wich were published in the local papers as were his three brothers.

very best regards jamesbow

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  • 5 months later...

Hi James, hope your well. My Great Grandfather George Andrew Tough was on the Topaze twice.

from 5 may 1916 - 24 may 1917 and again from 1 oct 1917 - 27 march 1918 - He must have liked the ship ;)

Marcus

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hi marcus,

she was a very good looking ship, i have a few good pictures of her if you want copys let me know.i also have a thought on this cp 19 days, a month before he enlisted in the navy;DEC 1905 he was fined for the third time for being drunk and refusing to leave licensed premises, his fine was £1-10s-6d, in default one months imprisonment, do you think that a possibility was that whilst home on leave he was arrested for non payment of fine?. there was no mention of my father in the topaze logs around this time. best regards all jamesbow

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hi marcus,

she was a very good looking ship, i have a few good pictures of her if you want copys let me know.i also have a thought on this cp 19 days, a month before he enlisted in the navy;DEC 1905 he was fined for the third time for being drunk and refusing to leave licensed premises, his fine was £1-10s-6d, in default one months imprisonment, do you think that a possibility was that whilst home on leave he was arrested for non payment of fine?. there was no mention of my father in the topaze logs around this time. best regards all jamesbow

Hi James, I'm no expert on all this stuff. I started out with my paternal Great Gandfathers, found out they both served in the Great War, then found out from my mothers dad (who also served in landing craft during ww2) that his father George Tough was a Seaman too. I bit the bullet and got his record from the NA and did a search on here for the ships he served on.

It comes to something when a man can't have a drink when he needs one ;)

I would love a picture of Topaze, could you send it as an attachment, cheers Marcus

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hopefully some pics of hms topaze.best regards jamesbow

and one more,regards jamesbow

post-10495-1232913635.jpg

post-10495-1232913764.jpg

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  • 1 year later...

Morning all,

Reviving this old thread as I am seeking information about TOPAZE for our collection at work.

This started when we found a photograph of her captain W.J.B. Law who was in command 1914-1918.

We also have photographs, probably reproduction, as follows: I haven't been able to look in the box (can't reach the shelf!) and this is from a brief listing by someone else. It makes me think there must be a story or two about Topaze which don't know...

View of HMS Topaze ‘with Formidable’s survivors’, no date.

Warships including HMS Topaze in the Med (1905)

French ship, Bondier escorting the Topaze (mid-20th c.?)

French sailors leaving Topaze

HMS Topaze (c1914)

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For what it's worth, Wiki has this info on the loss of HMS Formidable and Topaze's part in the rescue...

Loss

Under the command of Channel Fleet Commander-in-Chief, Admiral Sir Lewis Bayly, the 5th Battle Squadron spent 31 December participating in gunnery exercises off the Isle of Portland, supported by the light cruisers Topaze and Diamond. After the exercises, that night the fleet remained at sea on patrol even though submarine activity had been reported in the area.

With rough sea conditions and the wind increasing, submarine attacks would have been difficult to carry out effectively and so were not thought to be a significant threat. Formidable was steaming at 10 knots at the rear of the squadron off Portland Bill just 20 nautical miles from Start Point, when at 02:20 on 1 January 1915 a torpedo from U-24 struck the number one boiler port side. It was thought that she might be saved by reaching the coast, but by about 02:40 she had taken a list of 20° to starboard and her Commanding Officer, Captain Noel Loxley, gave the order to abandon ship. Darkness and worsening weather made it difficult to get the men and boats over the side; some small boats being thrown into the water upside down.

At about 03:05, Formidable was struck by a second torpedo on the starboard side. Amidst a 30 ft swell the pinnaces and launch along with other boats (one of which capsized soon after) were launched, and the two light cruisers came alongside and managed to pick up 80 men in the deteriorating weather. By 04:45, she seemed in imminent danger of capsizing, and a few minutes later she rolled over onto many of the men in the water and sank quickly. Captain Loxley remained on the bridge along with his Fox terrier Bruce, calmly overseeing the evacuation of the ship.

In rough seas near Berry Head, a Brixham fishing trawler “Provident”, under the command of Captain W. Piller, picked up the men from one pinnace before it sank, saving 71 members of the crew. The second pinnace took off another 70 men, of which 48 were brought ashore alive after it was eventually spotted from the shore the following night, 22 hours after the sinking. The total loss of life of Formidable was 35 officers (including Captain Loxley) and 512 men out of a total complement of 780.

The body of Captain Loxley's dog, Bruce, a war dog, washed ashore and was buried in a marked grave in Abbotsbury Gardens in Dorset.

Formidable was the third British battleship to be sunk, and the second to be sunk by enemy action, during the First World War.

That should be useful in dating the photo with Formidable's survivors...

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Kevin,

thank you! (now why didn't I think of Wiki ... blame the cold germs...)

sJ

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