War grave criteria

[fellop]

Terry

Many thanks again for your time and trouble in expanding my information in the subject.

 

One final question if I may. I ask this as a member of a Branch of my Corps Association.

You mention in Post 23 that the CWGC has no charter responsibility for Non World War Graves but cares for them under agreement with other authorities, MOD for example, and do I assume extends to Non World War Headstones.

 

So for example: Soldier X is killed in NI in the 70's. The family and the MOD instigate JSP 751 Vol 2 for returning the body to England, Funerals details, costs, headstone inscriptions etc etc. Solider X is buried in his local churchyard or Local Authority Cemetery and he has [what is now considered] the Standard MOD Supplied Pattern [Army] Non War headstone. As per you photo in Post 14: Lovett; Parachute Regiment.

 

Returning to your comments do I understand that the CWGC then takes the mantle of care of the grave and headstone of Soldier X on behalf of the MOD.

 

You might see where this going.

 

The Corps Association has over time received requests and /or queries from relatives, children or even grandchildren asking that the headstone and or grave of 'Soldier X' is in a poor state of repair and could the Corps Association do something about it. Answers from well meaning individuals range from:

Nothing to do with the Corps. Ask the Royal British Legion. Contact the MOD. Write to your MP. Contact the CWGC …....... Nothing to do with the CWGC as it is not a CWGC headstone or grave. Contact the council …......... and so on ad nauseam.

 

It might be handy for future reference if there might be answer or general indication, but as you say the subject is complex so perhaps not.

 

Regards

Peter

 

[Terry Denham]

Peter

 

As I said, CWGC has no Royal Charter responsibility to record or maintain graves outside the two world war periods. However, the Charter allows them to provide their maintenance skills and abilities to other authorities on a fee basis. CWGC has a number of agreements with MoD to cover certain graves for which MoD has responsibility (ie some but not all of the graves of those who died in service outside the war periods). 

 

Technically, MoD could contract any maintenance company to do this but, for many obvious reasons, CWGC is the chosen contractor. So CWGC now looks after all Non-World War Graves which are MoD's responsibility and they care for them as they would their own War Graves. They took over the care of all such graves in the UK only recently and are in the process of inspecting them and planning any maintenance now.

 

At this point (as always) it must be said that this is more complicated than it sounds. As stated before, most of these graves are marked with an Army, RN or RAF Non-World War stone supplied by MoD as appropriate. However, MoD is not responsible for all such service graves. The next of kin may have elected to undertake burial as a purely private matter and there is no further MoD involvement and no NWW stone provided by MoD. It then gets more complicated as, at the next of kin's request on occasions, MoD has provided NWW stones for some private burials but they are not then responsible for the maintenance (and therefore nor is CWGC under their agreement with MoD).

 

The upshot of this is that you cannot tell whether a grave with a MoD stone is MoD's responsibility or not! It may be or it may not. If it is not, neither MoD nor CWGC has any responsibility and maintenance is down to the next of kin. However, if it is MoD's responsibility, CWGC will be handling maintenance. In such cases, I would suggest contacting CWGC and they will tell you if it is a grave on their care list or not.

 

If you have any specific names in mind, you can email me and I will check for you.

 

 

[fellop]

Terry,

Thanks again for your answers.

No I have no names in particular at the moment but for some reason [or not] it is a subject that seems to come to the fore around remembrance day when perhaps families, widows, children, grandchildren, seem to remember that they have relative in the local cemetery and tootle off with some flowers, for some, on their annual outing. Then we Corps Association Branch Chairman and Committee members etc [I wonder if other Regimental or Corps Associations find the same] notice an influx of e mails asking who should they contact as [insert relative here] headstone or grave or both is in a shocking state.

 

Now I personally do not blame any relative wanting to find this information, they do it for a good reason. What does annoy me slightly, it is my age I know, is the hundred and one answers from well meaning individuals none of which turn out to be correct. The end result in many cases, sadly, is the relative says it is all to difficult and they shall not bother. Which to me seems a shame.

 

I wonder with your permission if I might retain your kind offer and perhaps the next time something like this pops up, if we at Branch level are unable to sort out the problem I may come to you for a 'look up' to perhaps find the right path to follow for the benefit of the relative.

 

Regards

Peter

[Terry Denham]

Of course you can.

[Terry_Reeves]

Although not WW1, this is linked:

 

https://www.thenational.ae/uae/british-servicemen-s-graves-in-sharjah-cemetery-restored-to-honour-1.585509

 

I remember this little cemetery from my time there,  1969-70. The garrison paymaster died of a heart attack and was buried there. Although the CWGC has it on their website, the names are not recorded.

 

TR

Edited 11 June , 2020 by Terry_Reeves

[fellop]

Re Post 30.

I was there 1968.

 

regards

Peter

[andrew pugh]

Hi

  In Grevillers British Cemetery there are 17 French civilians buried among the the graves of British soldiers but their headstones are the concrete type.

Regards

Andy 

[temptage]

Within my local Cemetery there are now 10 post-WW2 military graves, dating from 1953 to 2018, that are under the MOD, but the CWGC do occasionally come and check on their condition every so often. About 8 years back, when I used to walk my dogs in there everyday, I would always speak to any of the CWGC workmen who were on site. One day, the two of them asked me if I knew where all the MOD graves were as they knew there were some in the Cemetery, but didnt have any plot numbers, so I took them round the Cemetery and showed them the headstones, AND worked out the plot numbers for them (it is very easy to do in that Cemetery if you know how the system works)