Confused with service numbers

[barrieduncan]

Hi Graham,

I can't remember now if I did actually see anything that tells me he enlisted in 1913. I must have got that number from somewhere, but can't be sure if I didn't get it by some dubious mental arithmatic now

I'm pretty sure his obit states that he was born in 1895, so any time between 1910 and 1913 is definitly feasible.

I did see a list printed in 1925 that showed Robert McGuiness as having served for 12 years, and having earned 5 medals - this would have him joining circa 1913.

Interesting idea about the service papers - where do you reckon I should be looking for these? For continuous service after 1921 would the Army Personne Centre have them or would his WW1 papers still be at TNA?

Sorry to keep bombarding you with questions Graham, thanks for all your help so far, been greatly appreciated.

Barrie

[Graham Stewart]

Barrie,

Christ I can't remember!! They used to be at Hayes, but all records including mine were moved up to Glasgow, but I can't remember if they seperated them into date groupings with certain records being moved to other locations. I think the Army Personnel Centre do tell you where to look on their website. If you do manage to track them down, you're going to have to let us all know what they say, you do realise that don't you.

Best of luck anyway.

Graham.

[Armoured Farmer]

Barrie,

If he served beyond 1920, which we're sure of then it's the MOD for papers.

To request service papers from the MOD go here: -

http://www.veteransagency.mod.uk/service_r...ce_records.html

Regards

Farmer

[barrieduncan]

Hi Farmer,

Looking at the link you provided, I'm not sure if I'll be able to get this chaps service papers without the permission of the N.o.K - or have I read it incorrectly?

Cheers

Barrie

[Armoured Farmer]

Somewhere there's a bit about interested parties. I've never asked for records so can't give you advice beynd this.

Farmer

[barrieduncan]

No worries, i'll give them a buzz tomorrow and see what the deal is. Thanks again,

Barrie

[barrieduncan]

Graham, having now done a bit of reading on the subject, I don't think there is a simple explanation regarding the amalgamation of the 5th and 6th Battalions

The battalion history for the 5th Scottish Rifle states that on the 28th of May they 'received a draft of three officers and sixty-six men from the 6th SR which on account of casualties and recruiting difficulties at home was now to lose its individual identity'.

Of course, things are never as simple as this, so I checked the 6th Battalion war diary.

After sending the above men to the 5th Battalion, the 6th then received orders on the 30th of May to send 121 men to the 1st Cameronians and 198 men to the 18th Middlesex Regiment, and later on that evening, another order for 150 men to the 251st Tunnelling Company.

The next day, the men were sent to the 1st Cams and the 18th Middlesex, but they were unable to send the men to the 251st Tunnel Coy and this order was later withdrawn.

The men who had been sent to the 1st Cams and 18th Middlesex were returned to the 6th Battalion Scottish Rifles on 4th of June, and over the next few weeks the battalion receives fresh drafts of a few officers and men. On the 23rd of June Colonel W.M Kay went on leave to return home to protest the proposed amalgamation with the 5th.

On the 27th June the Battalion received a letter from GHQ giving instructions as to where all the officers were to be transferred. On the 6th July the first batch of men were sent to their new units and by the 11th the breaking up of the battalion was almost complete.

What is interesting is that it would appear the greatest percentage of officers and men were not sent to the 5th Battalion Scottish Rifles, but were scattered about all over the place - to call it an amalgamation is stretching the use of the word I think.

There was still a small 'nucleus' of men from the 6th kept at base, in case the battalion was to be reformed at some later date, the war diary actually continues into September 1916.

Well, that is about as clear as mud innit!

Barrie

[mcblondie]

And his MM card, showing him as being in the 9th Battalion (no mention in the 9th war diary of his MM by the way )

Just noticed it mentions something a bar to the MM, LG something 1926 - need to investigate this further!

Hi Barrie, was wondering if you can help me with some info. My G.father was in the 9th Battalion (Scottish Rifles), i have been unable to find any info on him due to our unusual surname. I have found two medal cards for someone with the same first name but different surnames, but possibly his name was mis-spelt?

His name was Jonas Polockus, but the MIC cards i found are for a Jonas Lokas, and Jonas Zokas. I'm hoping this is my G. Father, but they don't give any info as to next of kin etc... He was Lithuanian, from Scotland, joined the Army and that's about all i know. Can you tell me where i can find info on the war diary?

Thanking you in advance

Katie

[barrieduncan]

Hi Katie

I don't see any Polockus' on the MiC's, it's very possible that he signed up under an alias. There are a few John Pollocks in the Scottish Rifles, could one of them be your man?

How do you know he served in the 9th Battalion? Is this just word of mouth or do you have material proof that he served in this unit?

Service records would have next of kin details on them, you can get these at the National Archives. Maybe if you searched for names similiar to Polockus (if there are any) you might get lucky and find your guy.

[Armoured Farmer]

Barrie, here's the MIC: -

Regards

Farmer

[barrieduncan]

Fantastic Farmer,

Very much appreciated, thank you. I can now add that to the growing list of Medal cards for this chap, think that brings the total up to four

Thanks again mate,

Barrie

[Guest re100]

Hi Barrie

Ref the group photo of the 2nd Batt Sco Rif in Quetta, from which the soldier is cut, do you have the full photo?

I have been trying to locate such a photo as my Great Uncle will be in it (provided he wasn't in the cells at the time, which he was for most of his time in India!)

Please could you let me know as I would love a copy.

Kind REgards

Roy

roy@newportiow.wanadoo.co.uk

[Guest hawk37]

No worries, i'll give them a buzz tomorrow and see what the deal is. Thanks again,

Barrie

Hello Barrie,

I hope that you receive this, as I have only just discovered the site and joined today.

I have read a number of your discussions and research - especially the review of the Regiment numbers for the Scottish Rifles in this thread. I was wondering if you could help me and or point me in a direction that would help with our family mystery.

My Grandfather was in the Scottish rifles, we have photo's, his army passport and we think we still have a medal. I recently found his army record in the British Army WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 - S McNeill. (His full name Stewart McNeill). The issue is that after a lot of searching we have been unable to find his official birth record / certificate and are unsure of his correct age - but are fairly sure that he would not have been old enough or did not serve in WW1 - he served in India, Iraq etc in the 1920's with the Scottish rifles. However as he has a WW1 record card we are unsure if he did serve at a young age - or he was older then he said. He stated that he was born on 23/11/1905. Are you sure the a 7 number regiment id was issued post WW1? Why then does he have a WWI Medal Rolls Index Cards, 1914-1920 record?

We would love to see his army records but being in Australia it is fairly difficult. I noticed that you were able to access an original enlistment book - do you still have access, would Stewart be recorded in this book? His army record is attached - if it doesn't come through his regiment number was # 3237101 - Scottish Rifles.

If anyone on the forum could help, my mother and I would be forever greatful, as he has become a mystery the further we research his history

Thanks

hawk37

S McNeill

[Stebie9173]

The attached card has no record of entitlement for Great War medals but does have an entitlement for the General Service Medal with the Kurdistan Clasp - a medal which was replaced in August 1927.

His 7 digit number is certainly 1920+, and all this ties in with what you already know about Stewart's service.

His medal should be the top one (George V) shown on this link: General Service Medal Page (with a Kurdistan clasp rather than the Iraq one shown).

The dates for entitlement are shown here:

Kurdistan Clasp Award dates

Note that he could have had a pre-1920s number also (since entitlement during 1919, if applicable, would have been under the old number regime), but by the time he was awarded his GSM, he would have had the new 7-digit number, which is what has been recorded. t is also possible that he did not qualify until the 1923 dates, which is perhaps more likely considering his supposed age.

Steve.

[Guest hawk37]

Thanks Steve, much appreciated. Do you know anyway of getting hold of the enlistment records like the pictures in this thread? This would be very interesting for us.

Cheers,

Robyn

The attached card has no record of entitlement for Great War medals but does have an entitlement for the General Service Medal with the Kurdistan Clasp - a medal which was replaced in August 1927.

His 7 digit number is certainly 1920+, and all this ties in with what you already know about Stewart's service.

His medal should be the top one (George V) shown on this link: General Service Medal Page (with a Kurdistan clasp rather than the Iraq one shown).

The dates for entitlement are shown here:

Kurdistan Clasp Award dates

Note that he could have had a pre-1920s number also (since entitlement during 1919, if applicable, would have been under the old number regime), but by the time he was awarded his GSM, he would have had the new 7-digit number, which is what has been recorded. t is also possible that he did not qualify until the 1923 dates, which is perhaps more likely considering his supposed age.

Steve.