Other rank escapers

[chrrip]

I 've started to research escapes and attempted escapes from camps in Germany following on from a specific 5th london exercise. Am looking at WO161, but would like to see any written accounts from other sources. Help gratefully received

[Coldstreamer]

send me a PM with our email and I will TRY and send a copy of a newspaper about a Coldstream escapee in the next few days

[6th Shropshires]

Hi erniecrisp

I have an account of two men who escaped from a German P.O.W. camp but I think the camp was in France not that far behind the lines and not in Germany. If interested like me know.

Annette

[chrrip]

Hi erniecrisp

I have an account of two men who escaped from a German P.O.W. camp but I think the camp was in France not that far behind the lines and not in Germany. If interested like me know.

Annette

Am interested, thank you, Annette

[6th Shropshires]

Hi erniecrisp

The paper says they escaped from Germany but I would have thought it would take days to make it to front line ? Also it was three who escaped not two. Also there a few lines missing, sorry not my doing.

[6th Shropshires]

next part

[6th Shropshires]

last part

[chrrip]

last part

Thank you very much for this Annette; Downes was interned at Cambrai, so you were right about France, and escaped with L/Cpl H E Parsey; they were interviewed after their return and their reports are in FO383/290 including a list of other PoWs at Cambrai and their sworn depositions; you will find this hard to believe but I came across this info 5 minutes ago!! Chris

[6th Shropshires]

Glad to have been of help Chris.

Annette

[Coldstreamer]

send me a PM with our email and I will TRY and send a copy of a newspaper about a Coldstream escapee in the next few days

had a clear out and lost your address - can you send it again and i will send the account by return

Sorry

[chrrip]

I 've started to research escapes and attempted escapes from camps in Germany following on from a specific 5th london exercise. Am looking at WO161, but would like to see any written accounts from other sources. Help gratefully received

Have received 3 or 4 accounts; very interesting; would like to receive some more; any help out there?

Thanks

[Malcolm]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=291962007

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=304852007

Aye

Malcolm

[Chris_Baker]

My man is George Gottheil Carle of the 5th Londons, the London Rifle Brigade. I think its a brilliant story and he is my second hero of German extraction today!

George was taken prisoner on 1 July 1916 in the diversionary attack on Gommecourt. At roll call after withdrawal, 203 other ranks were reported missing. This figure included George, whose story is best told by the man himself, in his debriefing interview after his escape. It is clear from some of his wording that this interview took place in 1918:

Name, Rank, No. and Regiment

Carle, George. Lance Corporal. No 84. London Rifle Brigade.

Home address

113 Wanstead Park Avenue, Wanstead, London.

Place and date of capture

Hebuterne, 1 July 1916.

Nature of wound, if any

Slightly wounded in left foot.

My present age is 21, and before the war I was a student of Civil Engineering at the London University.

We were captured at about 4 o'clock in the afternoon, having been surrounded by the Germans.

I did not report myself as wounded, and therefore did not receive any attention at a field dressing station, nor was I detained in any hospital in France or Belgium before being sent into Germany.

I was captured with Private Martin, of the London Rifle Brigade, in at sap-head, and we were at first taken into what was then the German first line. We remained in a dugout for about two hours, and were then taken back to what appeared to be Headquarters in about the 5th line. We were not officially interrogated, but the officers put some questions to us, probably more out of curiosity than anything, but we did not give them any information.

After about a quarter of an hour at the headquarters we were taken to a village in the rear and placed in a church for the night.

We were given a little bread and coffee, and we were interrogated there.

The next day we marched about 15 kilometres and entrained at another village for Cambrai.

Cambrai, July 2-13,1916

At Cambrai we were taken to permanent barracks in town which was surrounded by a moat. I do not know the name of these barracks. I have little to say about my treatment at these barracks, except that we were almost starved to death. There were about 600 prisoners in our party. All that we had was about a of a loaf of bread per man per day, weighing about 250 to 300 grams, a little vegetable soup in the middle of the day, and coffee substitute. After 14 days at Cambrai we were all sent to Dülmen in Westphalia.

Journey April 13-15, 1916

The journey to Dülmen was made in closed cattle-trucks. They were very crowded. There were seats arranged in rows and we were able to sit down. The journey was not by any means a comfortable.

Dülmen July 15 - August 17, 1916

We arrived at Dülmen July, and left again on the 17th August 1916. On 17th August 1916 I was sent to Heuberg in Baden.

Heuberg, August 17, 1916 - April 24, 1917

Heuberg is a camp for prisoners of war, situated about 50 kilometres from Constance. There is a village called Stetten in the neighbourhood, but quite a small place, containing, perhaps, 600 to 1000 inhabitants. The village was about one kilometre from the camp. Stetten is about seven kilometres from the Danube.

Heuberg is a camp which is capable of holding a large number of prisoners. I think its capacity is 13,000, but while I was there it was fairly empty. 7000 would be the largest total of prisoners while I was there. Of these, about 300 were British.

The commandant of the camp was Freiherr von Plattenberg. He was a stern man of about 50 years of age, with grey hair and a grey moustache. He held the rank of Oberst, or Colonel. I cannot say anything as to his treatment of prisoners, as he never had anything to do with them. I think the second in command was a Major Rücket, but we saw nothing of him either.

We were lodged in wooden barracks capable of holding about 120 men each. The camp is built on a hill, on rocky soil, and these dry and very healthy. The huts were built with single walls-probably of half-inch planks. The huts were roofed with wood covered with felt, tarred and sanded. The climate there is very cold, and in winter we felt the cold a great deal in these huts. Each hut contained four coal stoves, and we received about a scuttleful of coal for the whole hut for the day. When on working parties we used to collect wood and bring it in for fuel, but this was chiefly for cooking. Generally speaking, the heating was insufficient. Our washing arrangements were basins in huts, and we drew water from a standpipe in the compound. The sanitary arrangements were good. At first no beds were provided for us, and we had mattresses on the floor and two blankets and no pillow, but after a time I found some wood and made myself a bedstead, and about the same time beds were supplied. These consisted of rough wooden framework made of pine wood, and were constructed by the prisoners. We had some Russians there who were rather good at this work, and they evolved their own scheme of making these bedsteads, and they were all made after the same pattern. I do not say that they were comfortable, but the mattress which was stuffed with straw and leaves, took away the rough edges.

The main work for the prisoners employed in the camp was that of making a road running roughly in a north-eastern direction from Stetten. British, French and Russian prisoners were employed on this work. We received 30 pfennigs a day for the work. I myself was engaged on this work. The men who were told off for lighter work on account of the state of their health were employed on the ordinary camp fatigues and in connection with the rationing of the camp, and received no pay for this. No attempt whatever was made to force either myself or, so far as I know, any other prisoners to make munitions. There are practically no factories in Baden.

The food supplied to us was wholly inadequate for the men to work upon. We used to get a loaf weighing 1500 grams, which had to last us five days, and in the summer, when bread were short, I have known this ration to be made to last for six and a half days. At midday we always had the same food, viz., a vegetable soup, and at night we were given coffee substitute and sometimes a small quantity of potatoes. We had no other food whatever, except that on Tuesdays and Fridays we had salt fish boiled up in the soup. It did not improve the flavour of the soup, but I never used to eat it after I got my parcels. I have seen cheese served out, a very small piece once a week or so. There was a canteen, but all that we could get there were cigarettes, matches, lemonade and an inferior kind of apple cider which was passed off as "wine". Cigarettes were a penny each, matches 60 pfennigs a box, lemonade twopence a bottle, and cider 1.5 Marks per glass. The bread which I received at Heuberg came from Copenhagen, and was excellent bread and arrived in good condition. The food in the parcels from England arrived in good condition.

The only clothing with which I was supplied by the Germans was a white cotton shirt and two pieces of square flannel which they called "socks" but I did not quite know how to put them on. Until my first clothing parcel came I was wearing the uniform in which I was captured. I asked for the shirt and socks, as I had no change of these.

We were able to exercise in the compound. The huts consisted of two rows of four, and there was an open space at the side of each line of huts - probably about 50 yards wide - and we had made a path in the compound and could walk on this. We also play football in the spaces at the end of the line of huts. We used to box with gloves sent out from England, but no formal boxing competitions were allowed. We used to play baseball also, so far as our means allowed, though we only had the ball and mitts. Indoors we played cards and chess. Smoking was allowed out of doors, and we used to smoke indoors, but I'm not sure whether this was officially permitted. When we were new prisoners an attempt to stop smoking in the huts was made, but, as a matter of fact, we all used to smoke and the officials used to see us doing so.

There was no epidemic while I was at Heuberg, and I was never in camp hospital.

We had no regular religious services for Protestants, but the Reverend Mr Williams came once and conducted the service according to the form of the Church of England. This was held in one of huts which was ordinarily used by the French for the Roman Catholic services.

Letters at Heuberg arrived regularly on Thursdays and Sundays, and parcels at irregular intervals. In January 1917 we were three weeks without them, but sometimes they would come as frequently as every day for a week. I cannot say who opened the letters. The censor's office was at a place called "Immendingen" and letters were always delivered to us after having been opened, and I noticed that they always smelt of some chemical.

Parcels had been opened before been delivered to us, but they had again been fastened up. Paper and mustard were taken out of our parcels. We were not allowed to receive newspapers. We were allowed to write two letters per month and four postcards per month. Parcels for men on commando were censored, the idea being that they should go direct, after being censored, to the men on commando instead of being sent into the camp and forwarded from there. Until about the 15th January this year the tins were taken from our parcels. They were then opened in the presence of a sort of committee of NCO's and the contents were issued at the rate of about eight tins per week per man. The men on commando lost their tins in this way up to July 1917 as the tins were sent in to Heuberg and the contents were not forwarded to the commando, but distributed among to the men in the camp. There were many complaints about this, and after July 1917 an order was issued that if the burgomasters of the villages in which a men were working would take the responsibility of censoring the tins they could be sent up to the commando. The empty tins were removed from the camp in a wagon to the Landsturm barracks at Heuberg, and were there afterwards removed from there, and I do not know what was done to them. During the last few months parcels and bread, etc, have been received satisfactorily.

I have no complaint to make of a general treatment at Heuberg. I saw no cases of cruelty to British prisoners, but I was a witness of one case in which a Russian was bayoneted. This man was working outside camp, and was not moving fast enough to please the sentry, and there was some argument between them and I suddenly heard him yell. I saw him afterwards and found that he had been bayoneted in the side. I did not actually see the wound, nor did I see the sentry bayonet him, but I know that he was so injured that he was taken into the camp. I never saw him again. This was the only case of cruelty I saw. I do not know either the name or the Regiment of the sentry. He was a Landsturmer, but I do not know the number of his battalion.

Discipline was well-maintained at the camp. There were regulations posted up in various languages informing us of these regulations. Approaching the wire was an offence. If a man approached the wire and failed to halt after being called upon three times by the sentry, the sentry would fire upon him. Failure to salute was an offence punishable with anything from 7 to 14 days imprisonment. Damage to German property was another offence, punishable with death, but I never heard of the death penalty being inflicted for this. Attempting to escape was punishable with 14 days imprisonment. Striking a German civilian, officer or soldier was another offence punishable with 14 days imprisonment in the case of striking a civilian but the penalty for striking a soldier was two years imprisonment, and this punishment increased in proportion to the rank of the person assaulted.

The only visit which we had while I was at Heuberg Camp from the representative of a Neutral Power was the visit of a representative of the American Ambassador about February 1917. He spoke to us in the presence of German officers, who could hear our conversation. Complaints were made to him, but some of these were very frivolous. We complained about the food, and the men on light work complained that their work was too heavy. His visit was a surprise, and no special arrangements were made for it. We noticed no improvement after his visit.

Todtnau, April 24 - May 11. 1917

About the 24th April 1917 I was sent on commando to Todtnau. This is a village about 70 kilometres due north of Basel. There were, roughly, 30 men in the commando - 11 English, 14 Russians and 6 French. We were employed on wood cutting in the forest at 30 pfennigs per day. The commando was in charge of two Landsturmers. We were housed in a disused garage at Todtnau, in which we were rather uncomfortably crowded, and our sleeping accommodation consisted of palliasses on the floor. I was there about three weeks without a blanket. Our treatment on this commando was good. The food was certainly better than it was in the camp. The civilians felled the wood, and we used to saw them up into metre lengths. The civilians showed no hostility to the prisoners. We had a long day's work, from 6 o'clock in the morning until 6.30 at night, with three breaks - half-an-hour at 9 o'clock, an hour and a half at midday, and half-an-hour at 4 o'clock. The men working on this commando were very fit, and the guards treated as well. This commando was attached to Heuberg.

1st Escape. May 11, 1917

On 11 May 1917 I escaped, but was recaptured four days afterwards and had 10 days' solitary confinement in a dark cell at Heuberg on bread and water, and was then sent back to Todtnau.

2nd Escape. July 28, 1917

I escaped again on the 28th July, and was recaptured two days afterwards, and this time I did my punishment at Todtnau, where I had 11 days imprisonment in a little local gaol. Again I was in solitary confinement on bread and water.

3rd Escape. August 24, 1917

On the 24th August I escaped again, and was again recaptured three days afterwards. This time I was sent to prison at Heuberg, in the camp, and served 7 days' solitary confinement and 18 days' confinement and hard labour. At first I was not allowed my parcels whilst on hard labour, but we - that is, myself and the two other men who had escaped with me - demanded them and succeeded in convincing the Germans that we were entitled to them, then we then got our parcels delivered to us. Our hard labour consisted of removing stumps of trees which had been cut down. For this work we were given crowbars, axes and shovels. We marched out at 5 o'clock in the morning and returned at 6 o'clock at night. It was very hard work. Except that the guards were continually keeping us up to our work, they did not treat us badly. At the beginning of October I was sent to Mannheim on a strafe commando , and remained there until about the 22nd December last.

Mannheim, Oct-Dec 22, 1917

I saw very little of this camp, as the men on the strafe commando were housed separately in a small compound and we only saw the camp for about two hours every day, being out at work the whole day. We were liable to be taken on Sundays, if required. We were employed on straw-pressing at a factory in a field adjoining a railway siding about three kilometres from the camp. We were employed from 6am to 6pm, and received 40 pfennigs per day for the work this work was hard. It consisted of unloading trucks and feeding the straw into the pressing machines. For a month we did not get any parcels, and the feeding was very bad during this time, the food being just the same as that supplied at Heuberg except that the ration of bread was always one loaf for six-and-a-half days. Our party consisted of 20 prisoners under a guard of six Landsturmers. I have no complaint to make of that treatment by the guards. The barrack accommodation at Mannheim was just the same as at Heuberg. There was nothing to choose between them. The only recreation we had was that occasionally on a Sunday we were allowed to walk about the compound. The same acts were offences at Mannheim as they were at Heuberg.

The reason I was sent to the Commando was that I had made so many attempts to escape. The punishment consisted in hardness of the work. We were kept at it for a whole day, instead of half a day as in the case of ordinary prisoners. The postal arrangements at Mannheim were the same as those at Heuberg, except that we were allowed to keep our tins there.

Heuberg, December 22, 1917 - March 5, 1918.

On the 22nd December I returned to Heuberg, and was sent with a working party to Ippingen on 5th March.

Ippingen, March 5-12, 1918

This is a very small village, about 12km north-east of Donaueschingen, where I was employed on farm work, for which I received 30 pfennigs per day of the. We were lodged in a disused house in the village, and were more comfortable there than we had ever been. The farm people for whom we were working gave us proper beds with sheets. Men who had no parcels were supposed eat with the persons for whom their working, but this did not apply to my case, as I had my parcels. To rule is that the employer has to provide food for the prisoners, but they have a dreadful way of eating, and we preferred to have nothing to do with them, but to live on our parcels. There was one guard over this party, a Landsturmer, who lived in the village and used to return to the barrack at night. He treated us properly, and did not interfere with us. I should think he would be about 45 years of age. I escaped from here on the 12th March 1918.

Opinion of Examiner

Lance-Corporal George Carle, whom I have today examined at 4 Brick Court, Temple, has given a statement which I regard as being absolutely straightforward and free from exaggeration, and I consider that it may be accepted as quite reliable and a fair and impartial record of his experiences. From the manner in which his witness replied to questions put to him I formed the opinion that he is an educated young man of considerable intelligence, and he appeared to appreciate fully the object of his examination”.

R. C. Swain, solicitor.

Unfortunately the text of the interview does not cover George's actual escape and I have been unable to find any reference that gives details. I am sure however, that it must be written somewhere. The Mitchinson book "Officers and Gentlemen" refers to George having swum the Danube, which is obviously a strong possibility given his escape from nearby Ippingen. He still had a considerable journey from that point, presumably crossing the Rhine somewhere near Schaffhausen to reach Switzerland.

[DaveBrigg]

Published accounts of escapes include:

I Escape! by Lt J. L. Hardy (Connaught Rangers), autobiographical, describing his seven escapes between 1914 and 1918, the last one successful.

Within Four Walls by Captain M. C. C. Harrison (Royal Irish Regt)and Lt H. A. Cartwright (Middlesex Regt), describing an escape from Magdeburg, followed by several individual attempts and considered a 'classic'. They used split second timing to distract the guards, with cell doors opened at just the right moment to obstruct the view.

Four-fifty Miles to Freedom by Captains Johnston (RGA) and Yearsley (RE), narrating their trek of 450 miles through Turkey, before they managed to steal a boat and sail to Cyprus. Also in the escape party were Captains A.B. Haig (24th Punjabis), V. S. Clarke (Royal West Kent Regt), J. H. Harris (Hampshire Regt), R. A. P. Grant (112th Infantry), F. R. Ellis (DCLI) and Lt-Commander A. D. Cochrane (RN)

From the other side, Oberleutnant H. H. E. Justus managed to escape twice, once by walking out of Colsterdale in disguise and the second time by jumping train, getting as far as Cardiff before being beaten by illness.

None of them 'Other Ranks' I'm afraid.

[chrrip]

Chris please see extract from my write up of LRB PoWs

As far as can be ascertained about a dozen ‘Chyebassa’ men were captured. The 1914 Star Roll names four men who were captured at Gommecourt on 1 July 1916. They were:

9553 300125 Rfn. Morgan EGH

9868 300214 Rfn. Avery C W

4 300250 Rfn. Burn A

84 300217 L/Corp Carle C G

Interestingly three of the men are recorded on the BW/V Roll with their last day of service with the 1st Battalion being 30.6.16. Carle was awarded the M.M. as a prisoner of war but the citation for his award, which would reveal the circumstances around it, has remained undiscovered. However there is a reference to him in an article in the LRB Record for the month of August 1936, as follows;

‘..there were three who had the unique experience of escaping from Germany after being taken prisoners of war. These three stalwarts were L/Corporal G. Carle (‘D’ Coy ),Rifleman. C G Rippengal ( ‘A’ Coy ), and Rifleman E Evanson ( ‘C’ Coy ). After the tragic failure of the attack at Gommecourt on July 1 1916, Carle, Rippengal and Evanson were amongst the ‘missing’. In 1918 the writer fortunately met Evanson and obtained details of his escape. ( Both Evanson and Rippengal, left accounts of their capture and life in captivity as well as the circumstances of their escapes. Evanson’s account entitled ‘ Escape from a coal mine’ is available at The National Army Museum - in addition to the good account in the ‘Record’ - whilst Rippengal’s account was documented by the House of Lords Select Committee which examined alleged German war crimes including the maltreatment of PoWs – available at the National Archives. They also are included in a group photograph of LRB men captured on 1.7.16 taken at Minden Camp which is published in Mitchinson’s book ‘Gentlemen and Officers’. Another man in the photograph, Basil Houle, also wrote an account of his captivity which is similarly available at the Archives. ).

On Carle though, the only reference to his escape from the article is thus;

‘How L/Cpl. Carle started to swim to Switzerland across Lake Constance, was recaptured by a German patrol boat after he had been swimming an hour, and how he finally escaped by swimming the Danube, together with Rifleman Rippengal’s dash for freedom after his bribery of a civilian with a cake of soap, must be left for other writers to record. Unfortunately, the present writer has no further details in his diary.’

Apparently George was successful on his 4th attempt - this is where the project started for me; 5 LRB men were awarded MMs for escaping out of a total of 9 for the whole of the London Regiment. It is good to know you are a fan - and by the way, Behind the Wire is excellent. I hope to borrow a hard copy of the Index this summer.

Chris

[chrrip]

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=291962007

http://edinburghnews.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=304852007

Aye

Malcolm

Thank you Malcolm for this great story - I hope the daughter gets her dad's MM - I have a copy of DNW's catalogue so will look it up - another escaper's MM was auctioned by them last year; He was aCanadian who escaped with Rippengal, a 5th London man.

[owilki1984]

Hi,

Cracking story about the escapers MM. I just hope the daughter gets it. I fear she might be stretched; you just have to look on ebay to see how ruthless some military collectors can be.

As for escapers stories check out this Chemin des dames thread and the account provided by Susan Tall. Her relative escaped from a Prison camp – fascinating stuff.

 

There is also an account in Richard Van Emdens, Prisoners of the Kaiser. This is a nearly escape though rather than ‘one that got away’

Regards

Oli

[chrrip]

Thanks for that - Susan has sent me her relative's story; his escape brought him to Rheims; near escapes are welcomed too so thanks for the reference

[owilki1984]

Thanks for that - Susan has sent me her relative's story; his escape brought him to Rheims; near escapes are welcomed too so thanks for the reference

Hi

The escape story above is very interesting. If you come accross any accounts of escapes from a POW Camps called Crossen, or just any reference to that camp I would be very interested.

Also I am just beginning to look into High status captives. If you come accross anything about very high rankers, or status groups such as pilots I would be very greatful if you could share some infomation.

Many thanks.

Oli

[Andrew P]

The Australian service records sometimes include an account of a person's escape from a prisoner of war camp

Sydney Edwards service record. The account is towards the end of his record

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

Ashburton Thompson

http://naa12.naa.gov.au/scripts/imagine.as...mp;I=1&SE=1

Regards

Andrew

[chrrip]

Australian escapers I have found so far in the various archives; started the research from the 'Escapers' gazette; have not started to research individual WO161 records yet so these examples really useful - thanks

612 4728 Pte Allen T J Aus Inf Bn 53 MiD Escape

549 1782 Pte Badcock R Aus Inf Bn 26 MM Escape WO161 2904

613 2332 Cpl Benson C C Aus Inf Bn 13 MiD Escape WO161 3246

630 Pte Byrne Aus Inf Bn Att esc WO161 O.725

550 68 Pte Choat W P Aus Inf Bn 32 MM Escape WO161 2263

551 2825 L/Cpl Collings N C Aus Inf Bn 10 MM Escape WO161 2051

235 2568 Pte Cooke MM P G Aus Inf Bn 15 Bar MM Escape WO161 2773

552 2364 CQMS Edwards S Aus Inf Bn 51 MM Escape WO161 2885

554 4485 Pte Falconer A MacA Aus Inf Bn 47 MM Escape WO161 2072

555 3622 Pte Farley K A Aus Inf Bn 35 MM Escape WO161 2952

556 2835 Pte Fleming P J Aus Inf Bn 15 MM Escape WO161 2330

557 2365 Pte Gardiner E Aus Inf Bn 10 MM Escape WO161 1669

558 3809 Cpl Hemming G H Aus Inf Bn 45 MM Escape WO161 3283

559 3555 Pte Holmes H Aus Inf Bn 56 MM Escape WO161 2144

560 2618 Pte Johnson J W Aus Inf Bn 13 MM Escape

561 4534 Pte Lee J Aus Inf Bn 14 MM Escape WO161 2174

562 2464 Pte McIntosh J F Aus Inf Bn 47 MM Escape

563 1074 Pte Newman J L Aus Inf Bn 17 MM Escape WO161 3083

641 Pte Olsen Thomas Munroe Aus Inf Bn 19 Escape WO161 3096

564 940 L/Cpl Peachey F A Aus Inf Bn 15 MM Escape WO161 2178

565 2954 L/Cpl Pitts J W Aus Inf Bn 50 MM Escape WO161 2260

566 3398 Pte Reed G H Aus Inf Bn 54 MM Escape WO161 2809

636 Pte Rodehouse V M R Aus Inf Bn Att esc WO161 1943

567 2466 Pte Thomas H L Aus Inf Bn 30 MM Escape WO161 2119

568 2994 Pte Thompson A Aus Inf Bn 48 MM Escape WO161 2102

624 Sjt Turner Aus Inf Bn Att esc WO161 4066

569 4249 Pte Waterhouse A Aus Inf Bn 12 MM Escape WO161 2048

570 2464 Pte West H Aus Inf Bn 51 MM Escape WO161 1963

553 370 Sjt Facer E L M Aus MG Corps 21 MM Escape WO161 3277

[Wee-Bairn]

Hello There,

My Grandfather never spoke much of his experiences in WW1 , however he did tell of his escape briefly.

The first time he was with several men and was recaptured very quickly. For his trouble he was put in a "black hole" with stagnant water and rats. Luckily he had hide the compass well and it wasn't discovered.On his second attempt he escaped with 1 other soldier who was unable to swim. This was a bit of a problem as they had to cross water to enter Switzerland . My Grandfather while not a big man managed to get them both across to safety.

I recently found an article on Civilian POWs in WW1 and thought it might give me some insight into the experiences of my Grandfather as until then all I knew was what Mum and my father had told of his 2 escapes and an entry on Behind the Wire stating there were papers availlable. My problem at the time was I am now in Canada and the papers are in Kew.So I figured it would be a while before I could hire someone to have a look at the papers. What a great find when I read the above mentioned article and found that the National Archives had done some work and made the POW interviews available online just as they have the Medal Index Cards. For £3.50 or $7. Canadian I now have a copy of the transcript.

Not sure if it will help you with your research however my Gradnfather was captured very early in the war and remained a prisoner almost to the end.He doesn't mention any details of either escape and when I purchaced the transcript of Pte. Wood who had escaped with him the second time he makes even less mention of the event. I guess they were just glad it was all over and were ready to move on.

Here is a transcript of the papers from The National Archives.

3173-3175 No. 2522

Name Johnstone, William

Rank Private

No. and Regiment 379 , 2nd Battalion, Gordon Highlanders

Home Address Hillside Cottage, Auchenlochan, Argyllshire

Present Age 29

Occupation before War Soldier

Place and Date of Capture Ypres. 29th October 1914

Nature of wound, if any. In left leg, below knee.

When I was lying wounded a German soldier gave me a hit with his rifle. We were taken to a collecting station behind the lines and then went to the divisional headquarters; here we got a piece of bread and some water.

Journey. Oct.30-Nov 2 1914

The following day we were taken to a Belgian store and made to draw up provisions for the German troops, and then started in filthy closed cattle-trucks for Germany. At every station

we stopped at the doors were thrown open and civilians came and swore at us, and threw stones. Two stations beyond Dusseldorf, when we stopped, an officer sprang in and struck Lance-corporal Wilson, of the Coldstream Guards, with the flat of his sword as he lay wounded. Any men of Scotch regiments were always displayed to the people.

Cassel Hospital. Nov.2 1914-Jan.2 1915

I never had my wound dressed till we got to Cassel, and then I was overlooked and went a week before I got the second dressing. I arrived at Cassel Hospital on 2nd November 1914. I was two months in hospital and have nothing to complain of the treatment I received.

Camp. Jan 2- Aug 1915

On 2nd Jan 1915 I came out of hospital and went into Cassel Camp. It was a very bad place; there were about 20,000 prisoners, of which 116 were British. The barracks had originally been built to hold 1,000 men. At night we British dared not show ourselves outside the huts or we were knocked about. One night Sergeant Goodfellow, of the Cheshires, and Lance-corporal Foreshaw went outside and the sentry kicked and knocked them about until they were black and blue. When they complained to the commandant he said he would punish them if they came to him again with such trivial complaints.

I was at Cassel during the Typhus outbreak, which was very bad. Between 3000 and 4000 prisoners died, mostly French and Russian. There were two men, Ernest Green of the Gloucesters and Randall of the South Staffs., who were sent to hospital and no one ever heard from them again. We told Mr. Gerard, who made enquiries, but could find out nothing about them. Counting these two men, 16 British prisoners died. When the typhus broke out they partitioned off at first a piece of each barrack as a hospital or receiving room, afterwards they put up hospitals, but the Germans did very little for the sick. Mr. Williams, the English chaplain, said the outbreak was only beaten in severity by that at Wittenberg. We used to do what we could ourselves for the patients. The outbreak lasted three or four months.

After the outbreak finished we had a lot of boxing gloves sent out to us, and one day when we were having a little boxing bout the officer in charge of the guard turned out his men and they charged us with fixed bayonets, beating us with the butt end of their riffles. Many men had their arms and legs broken and had to go to hospital. The attack was quite uncalled for.

Heuberg. Aug.-Dec. 1915

I stayed at Cassel till August or September 1815, and then 57 of us were sent to Heuberg in Baden.

One day I walking about the camp when one of the guard hit me over the ear for no reason whatever; they had taken away the riffles from the soldiers and given them sticks instead. Another time when I was very bad with rheumatics I had to lie about 5 or 6 days before I could get admitted to hospital. One day a General was coming to inspect the camp I went to the Under-Officer and told him I was ill and asked if I might stop in barracks, He said, No, and ran after me and kicked me down the stairs.

At Heuberg we did no work besides make the camp, working from 5 to 12 and from 4 to 6. We were only a few months here, and a week before Christmas, 1915, we went to Mannheim.

Mannheim. Dec. 1915 - May 15 1916.

Mannheim is the best camp I have been in in Germany. I was there until May 1916. The English did not do much work here, only odd jobs about the camp. I have nothing to complain of here.

Tauberbischofsheim. May 15- 22 1916

About 15th May I went to Tauberbischofsheim, a working camp, and was sent out after a week to a place called Neudenau.

Neudenau. May- Nov. 1916

Six of us were sent, and we worked on small farms. I received very good treatment from the people I worked for, and stayed for six or seven months.

Krautheim. Nov. 1916

After this five of us were sent to Krautheim, but only stayed a few days, as we refused to work, for the place we were put in was filthy and so were the people.

Tauberbischofsheim. Nov.-Dec. 1916

We got eight days in prison, and then were sent back to Tauberbischofsheim and after a week here we were sent back to Heuberg in December 1916.

Heuberg. Dec 1916- April 1917

Haeg. April- Dec. 5 1917

I spent the winter at Heuberg, and in April 1917 I was sent out to work on a farm at Haeg, a very good place.

Heuberg. Dec. 5 1917- March 1918

Konigsfeld. March- May 1918

There were ten of us, five lived in the village and worked there and the other five worked on outlying farms. I stayed here until 5th of December 1917, and then went back to Heuberg until March 1918, when I was sent to a hotel in Konigsfeld and worked on the farm attached to it. The food was anything but good. The woman who ran the place was very insulting; she had had a brother who had fought against us in the South African war, and was always telling lies about what happened then.

1st Escape. May 1918.

Heuberg. May- June 1918.

I stayed here until May, when I attempted to escape, was caught and sent back to Heuberg and after a fortnight to Konigsfeld, and then to Neustadt.

The conditions in Heuberg for the men are not very good. You have to work no matter what the weather was, and we had very severe winters. The food was quite insufficient without our food parcels from England. Now they issue daily only one half bucketful of coal for four stoves in a barrack room, and you are not allowed to take in wood when you are out, though we did manage to sometimes. I saw a representative from the Dutch Legation early in 1917, and someone came early in 1918; complaints were made to them, but I do not know that it brought any improvement. We had several visits from a Y.M.C.A. gentleman from Sweden, he was very good, and got us books and other little things. We had a theatre there, not a very good one, and we could play football, but there was no special ground for it. I do not think the commandant liked to see us enjoying ourselves at it, for he issued an order that another wire was to be put up about 18 feet from the barbed wire around the camp, and said if our ball went between these two wires the sentry could shoot us if we tried to recover the ball, which of course meant that we could not play. But the discipline is getting much slacker, as it is also among the German soldiers. Heuberg is a big military center, and I have seen a private soldier talking to an officer without standing at attention as if they were equals.

Neustadt. June-Sept. 20,1918

Neustadt is a big paper factory. The work for some of the men is not too bad, but the barrack accomadation is scandalous, not fit for human habitation. The whole place is rotten and filthy, and very verminous. We made complaints, but got no satisfaction. If it is possible to have a

Representative of England I think he should go and see the place. I am positive a lot of alterations could be made for the benefit of the prisoners, and it is large enough to warrant a visit.

There were 83 prisoners about 40 British and the remainder French, Italians and Russians. You sleep four in a bed, two above and two below. There are two small stoves outside the door of the barrack room for cooking, and when we are brought back for dinner we are locked in and they came back for us ¼ of an hour before we had to go back to work. If they must lock us in they could put the door in a different place. We heard 15 more were coming, and they are going to open another room above, which will be even worse than ours were.

The night Webster and another man escaped a store room where our things were kept was broken into and seven new pairs of boots and about 200 tins of things were stolen. The Feldwebel tried to pretend it was these men who had taken them, and when I said it wasn’t likely they would load themselves up with about 60lbs. weight of things he then said he would put the police on to the track, but nothing was done.

The orders for the French prisoners of war are hung up in French, and I think they ought to do this for the English; we never really knew what our orders were. When the French are given arrest they are allowed to take their blanket, overcoat and a book, we saw it in their orders, but we are not allowed to take these. I do not see why there should be any difference made in the treatment of prisoners of war. Then again, the French work 10 hours a day, but if they are kept overtime at night they must have extra time off during the day. One day a week they have to have free, if possible Sunday; every other Sunday when the shifts are changing certain of our men have to work for 20 hours right off. On Sundays those of us who were not working were allowed to go into the town with a sentry to shop, and in the afternoon we went for a walk for about 3 hours, otherwise there is no recreation whatever.

I talked a good deal with Germans during the time I was out there. The general opinion now is that the war is completely lost, and many say that when the war is over they will make short work of the Kaiser. Even the soldiers talk, and say it is the capitalists and the military party who are keeping it on. They are realising now that they have been kept down, they are silly to work for what they have done even in peacetime, and they wish they were under the French or the British. They say they hope Prussia will be broken up and they would like to see Germany divided up again into small States. They all say they are coming over to England as soon as they can, and at the factory at Neustadt they have drums of paper labelled “Use No Hooks” (in English) ready to be shipped over here as soon as possible. They are turning out enormous quantities of paper, making it from wood pulp. We heard all the news from the men we were with; one of them had a brother who came to see him on leave, and he said that huge numbers of soldiers were simply laying down their arms and giving themselves up to the British and French as they are very short of food.

At the factory we got the same food as the Germans got and it was inadequate for the hard work that was to be done. They are constantly sending in petitions to have their allowances increased, saying it is impossible to work on what they got. I know this was done as late as three weeks ago.

I received my first parcel about May 1915, since then they have come pretty regularly, sometimes of course being held up along the way. Letters of late have been very delayed, often taking from six to eight weeks, this is much worse than it used to be.

I saw no American prisoners, but plenty of Italians, who were in rather a bad way. They are receiving parcels now, but not many.

Escape Sept. 20,1918.

I escaped with Private Wood on the night of the 20th September 1918, and got into Switzerland on the 23rd.

Examined by T. Byard.

3rd October 1918

I have to say I am on cloud 9 since I have found this and my Mum is even more proud of her father now after reading this account.

Wee-Bairn

[chrrip]

Terrific story - George Carle featured earlier was also at Heuberg and escaped by swimming the Danube.

[chrrip]

Did you know that your grandfather was awarded the Militay Medal for his escape; and was Wood in the Cameron Highlanders? His file WO161 page 274 if it was him

[GrandsonMichael]

DEBRIEFING OF P.P.C.L.I. PRISONERS OF WAR, official N.A. documents.

Name, Rank, No. and Regiment.

Drope, Harry Earl, Private, 475823, P.P.C.L.I.

Home Address.

Regina, Saskatchewan, Canada.

Place and Date of Capture.

2nd June 1916. Ypres.

Nature of Wound, if any.

Slight shrapnel wounds.

Occupation and Age.

Branch manager of Insurance Company. 29 years.

Capture. June 2, 1916.

I was captured in front of Ypres on the 2nd June 1916.

Journey. June 2-4, 1916.

I was at once dispatched to a depôt of Uhlans where I was kept overnight, and I had half-a-day’s Journey to a railway station some 20 kilometers.

Dülmen. June 4-Aug. 4, 1916

I arrived at Dülmen camp, Westphalia. I was there for two months, from the 4th June 1916 to about the 4th August 1916. As far as I can remember there were some 3,000 prisoners in this camp, which was divided into three sections: ( a ) old prisoners, ( b ) sick prisoners, and ( c ) incoming prisoners.

I was excused duty the first month I was a this camp, and attended hospital for bandaging purposes. The hospital treatment was generally all right; the food was generally speaking very bad. When I was not attending hospital I was engaged on cartage work in connection with wood for clogs, the outstanding feature of which work was apparently that a very heavy waggon had to be drawn by the men loaded with logs, but I do not complain unduly about the labour.

After about a month I, with a party of others, volunteered to go on a working commando, it being understood that we should be allowed to work on farms.

The authority in this camp appears to have been delegated to British N.C.O.’s who had to give the German instructions to the men under them, and the circumstances under which I left the camp was that I and some others were told by the sergeant that we were going the following day on commando and that we were to remain in barracks the day on which these instructions were given. This brought us into conflict with an unter-offizier, and, notwithstanding the explanation which was given him, he reported me and three of my comrades for punishment.

Münster II. August 4-6 1916.

We four, with a party of others, were accordingly on the 4th of August moved to Münster II. The men with which I went were taken out of cells where they had been sent for punishment. Subsequently it was denied that it was a punishment expedition, but I am sure it was.

Journey. Aug. 6-9, 1916.

We waited for the prisoners to assemble for two days at Münster II, and were then

moved on to Heilsberg in East Prussia, the journey t which camp took three days, and the treatment on the way by the military guards was objectionable. We travelled in third-class carriages, which were very crowded. The food was very bad on the journey, quite insufficient. No rations were given on departure for about 36 hours. The prisoners were without food for at all. On arrival at stations, very meagre food was given. I and my three Canadian comrades were worse off than the others because they had no parcels. The food consisted of very thin soup and some black bread. We passed through Berlin where we were given some coffee and tiny pieces of sausage.

Heilsberg. Aug. 9-14, 1916.

We arrived at Heilsberg on 9th August 1916. The camp is called Heilsberg Province central camp in East Prussia for all prisoners. The prisoners are split up among different headquarters, the main division being between prisoners who are engaged on civil work and prisoners who are engaged on military work. I was sent with 62 others to the Stalluponen Camp Headquarters, to which I was nominally attached, but in fact I and 14 others, including 2 corporals, were sent on working commando to Goldap.

Goldap. Aug. 14, 1916-Feb. 4, 1918.

I was at Goldap from the 14th August to 4th February 1918. when I was sent to hospital in the town. There were attached to the Military Bau Commando at Goldap on my arrival about 170 Russian prisoners. There was no hospital attached to this camp. Prisoners who were seriously ill were taken to German hospital in the town, where a part was set aside for prisoners.

Hospital. Feb. 4, 1918-March 5, 1918.

I was in this hospital from the 4th of February till the 5th March 1918. The medical treatment was very good. Very little medicine, only paper bandages. I was suffering from diphtheria. The nursing was done by a Russian orderly who was very capable. The accommodation consisted of a two-storey annexe built for the purpose. We received the same food as the German patients, so I was told. The sanitary arrangements were not good; very little disinfecting. There was no difference in the treatment of nationalities. I do not know the name of the doctor, but he was quite a good German doctor. He was moderately skilful and humane. I had no operation. The ordinary hospital clothing was supplied and was sufficient. The bed clothing was quite sufficient and was changed when necessary. We were allowed whilst in the hospital a little indulgence in the way of letter writing. They permitted us to write more frequently than while in camp.

Goldap. March 5-June 13, 1918.

On 5th March 1918, I was sent back to Goldap. The control at Goldap is exercised as follows:-

There is a General at Heilsberg. There is a company commando at each of the company’s headquarters and an under-officer for each commando. I do not remember the names of the under-officers at Goldap. Whilst there we had three different ones. The first of these under-officers was very harsh and severe and brutally disposed towards the prisoners; the second was by comparison a decent man; the third who was there during the last ten months I was there was very severe and used to make the prisoners work very hard.

The accommodation was in very bad barracks. There was no heating at the first either winter or summer, but in breach of regulations(the breach being winked at) the prisoners used to collect fuel, the primary purpose of which was to cook their food. This used to afford some heating for a very short period of the day, and subsequently the prisoners themselves constructed some stoves with permission.

We were allowed one bath every two months being paraded in the town for the purpose. The other washing facilities being very bad indeed; water was obtained for us from a pump in the barrack square. In summertime bathing was much better, because we were permitted to bath in an adjoining lake. The sanitary arrangements were very primitive and as bad as could be, and the ventilation was abominable. The barracks were constructed so that at least half of the building was below the level of the ground. The only lavatory was an internal lavatory which was never disinfected, and the result can be imagined – it was appalling.

The work done by prisoners is paid for by the town (in this case Goldap) to which the commando is attached. The general control of labour of prisoners of war is vested in the Baumeister, who is a civilian, but who apparently has autocratic power. The directions given by the Baumeister are passed on to the under-officers in command and any complaints as to labour are made by the Baumeister to the particular under-officer. The importance of this is that a great deals turns on the personality of the Baumeister.

The first one at Goldap died in the winter 1916-1917 and his successor was a tyrannical slave driver. He was a proper Prussian.

The town of Goldap like many other towns in East Prussia have been devastated by the Russians. Prisoners were employed as builder’s labourers in re-construction ; they worked like navvies and the “watch word” was always “faster, faster”. The work was very hard and very heavy, and as strenuous as could be. The payment was at the rate of 30 pfennigs for 10 hours’ work. There was no attempt to force me or any other prisoners to make ammunitions. The ration consisted of a litre of soup twice a day and half a pound of black bread. Until the arrival of parcels the prisoners were more than half starved. After the arrival of parcels they were much better off than the Germans.

There was a canteen in the barracks, but there was practically nothing in it, no food at all. Matches, shoe blacking and writing paper were purchaseable. The food arrived from abroad all right.

We had no time for exercise except on Sundays. We were not allowed out of the barracks, but we used to have some boxing in the barracks on Sunday afternoons. We were allowed to go into the barrack yard and walk about. The boxing gloves were sent to us by the American Y.M.C.A. There was no recreation indoors. Smoking was permitted. There were no religious services. There was no epidemic whilst I was there.

I did not gat any parcels for the first four or five months, but afterwards I received letters and parcels regularly. Whilst I was at Goldap parcels were held up three times by way of reprisals; the holding-up was from six weeks to two months. Both the parcels and letters are censored at Heilsberg so not in the presence of the addressee. Nothing was taken out of the parcels, not even tins, although these used t be taken out. I was allowed to write two letters and four postcards a month.

I only know of one case of actual cruelty to a British prisoner, Lance-corporal Higgins. In this case he was hit over the head with a revolver. On the other hand they treated the Russians prisoners with excessive brutality, assaulting them every day with every weapon available. This treatment was alleviated during the last 12 months. I believe that our particular commando compared favourably with other commandos as regards British prisoners, as reports reached me of cruelty to men on other commandos.

The regulations appeared in notices in all languages. There was no particular acts considered offences. In some respects discipline was severe but in others it was very lax. There was a very healthy dread of conflict with British prisoners. The punishment consisted of imprisonment in cells from periods of five to fourteen days.

There were two visits from the American Ambassador. The interviews took place in the presence of the officers (German, but as the conversation was in English it was not understood by the Germans. The first visit was announced and all preparations were made for the visit. The representative came with the German officers from Stalluponen in motor cars. The first visit was in October 1916, and the second visit was in January 1917. This second visit was unannounced and the representatives were very thorough. They saw the shocking state of the barracks and undoubtedly made a report. The second visit was induced by a post-card which Private Stone, who was with me, despatched to a friend in Washington to say that the camp had been incompletely visited. The censoring was very lax in those days and it was possible to get information through. Some improvement in ventilation was effected, and temporarily we were allowed to go into the town and have a bath once a week. We had a telephone conversation with a Dutch representative, Dr. Romer, in June 1917, and we were asked to write to him in Berlin with any complaints. A letter was written but did not reach. We had a visit from him in October 1917, when he was very sympathetic , told us that he could not effect any improvements in the conditions, but he would leave no stone unturned to get the British prisoners removed from East Prussia.

Escape. June 13, 1918.

I escaped on 13th June 1918.

Opinion of Examiner.

I find this witness exceedingly intelligent and I believe him to be absolutely truthful, and his account of his experiences strike me as being trustworthy.

M. HYMAN ISAACS.

13th August 1918.

Source: The National Archives, London. Catalogue Reference: WO/161/100/372, pages 3087, 3088, 3089, No. 2332.

Cheers,

Michael