684832 Harry C V Williams 13th Bn Can Inf

[grleyland]

Does anyone have any information on 684832 Harry C V Williams 13th Bn Can Inf. I have seen the details on the Canadian Veterans Website and wonder if there are any other on line locations.

[jhill]

Hello!

I am sure members will post several references for you to check out. You may already have looked at many of them. For example, you should have looked at Harry's Attestation Paper at the Soldiers of the Great War web site. This will also tell you how to order a copy of his service record, if you should so desire. From his Attestation Paper we see that he enlisted with the 171st (Quebec Rifles) Battalion at Sherbrooke in September of 1916. It seems this unit sailed, some 500-600 strong, late in November.

By January, 1917, the 20th Reserve Battalion in Shoreham, Kent recorded about 300 of the 171st men on strength. I cannot say what happened to the rest. By February, most of the 171st men were still in the early part of their training. Presumably Harry was in this lot, as he would not have had enough time to train in Canada. Sometime in the next couple of months he must have been sent to France as a reinforcement for the 13th (Royal Highlanders of Canada) Battalion.

From his date of death and place of burial ( 24th August , St. Omer) we could speculate that he was wounded during his battalion's part of the "Hill 70" operation in the middle of August, and died at one of the several hospitals around St. Omer. The War Diary of the 13th is available on-line, and describes their activities during this operation, although individual soldiers are not usually mentioned.

I hope this is enough to get you started. If you need help tracking down references, give a shout!

[Borden Battery]

Here are some websites from the CEF Study Group Recommended Great War websites - this sample is from a list of over 450 websites. Borden Battery

Library and Archives Canada - Military History

This is the fundamental URL Internet address for most Canadian Expeditionary Force researchers. This site contains a wide range of basic links and represents a "starting point" for many people beginning research on the CEF in the Great War. For ease of navigation, several other website recommendations come from this “parent” website.[CEF Study Group - Updated July 2006]

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/war-military/index-e.html

Library and Archives Canada - Regimental Number List

The Regimental Number List of the Canadian Expeditionary Force is a guide which links a soldier’s regiment number to his assigned military unit. With the military unit’s name, a researcher can then search the War Diaries database. This website provides a scanned image page linking “Block Numbers” to “Military Units”.

[CEF Study Group – Sept 2006]

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/02015203_e.html#info

Library and Archives Canada - Soldiers of the First World War (1914-1918)

Over 600,000 Canadians enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) during the First World War (1914-1918). The CEF database is an index to those personnel files, which are held by the National Archives. To date, over 800,000 images of Attestation papers have been scanned and are being made available on-line. This material can be downloaded at no charge. The file format is a standard JPEG file. From this basic information a researcher can obtain the necessary information to acquire the full military file of a Great War soldier, however, in this latter case there will be a research fee. The CEF Study Group maintains a list of recommended National Archives researchers. [NOTE: Attestation registers (RG 9 II B8 ) contained in volumes 1 to 654 and may only be consulted at the Library and Archives Canada – they are not yet scanned and on-line.][CEF Study Group - Updated July 2006]

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/02010602_e.html

Library and Archives Canada - War Diaries of the First World War

This database contains the digitized War Diaries of the Canadian Expeditionary Force (CEF) units. From the start of the First World War, CEF units were required to maintain a daily account of their “Actions in the Field.” This log was called a War Diary. The War Diaries are not personal diaries, rather they are a historical record of a unit’s administration, operations and activities during the First World War.

[CEF Study Group - Updated July 2006]

http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/020152_e.html

Official History of the Canadian Army in the First World War Canadian Expeditionary Force, 1914-1919, Colonel G. W. L. Nicholson, C.D., Army Historical Section

This is the classic reference text [the Bible] for any student of the Canadian Expeditionary Force during the Great War. The original textbook is very difficult to obtain, however, the document is now available in the Adobe .pdf format directly from the historical section of the Canadian Armed Forces website. This document can be “key-word” searched for specific military units, locations and dates.

[CEF Study Group]

http://www.forces.gc.ca/hr/dhh/downloads/O...ories/CEF_e.PDF

The Canadian War Museum

The Canadian War Museum (CWM) is an affiliated museum of the Canadian Museum of Civilization. The Canadian War Museum, the national military history museum is also a centre for research and the dissemination of information and expertise on all aspects of the country's military past from the pre-contact era to the present. The new museum opened in May 2005. [CEF Study Group - Updated July 2006]

http://www.warmuseum.ca/

*Canadian Great War Project

This site is intended to be used to research Canadians who participated in the Great War 1914-1919. The content is primarily database driven to facilitate searches for information. The extensive site is, and will continue to be, a work in progress, and is becoming a collaborative effort among those interested in researching Canada and the Great War. The site is also developing a database of recommended books and websites. At present there are almost 70,000 records of individual soldiers in the database. Not all entries have full details, these are being built up, soldier by soldier. We are looking for volunteers to help complete these records, and add new soldiers, primarily based upon their attestation papers. [A Marc Leroux website][CEF Study Group - July 2006 - Updated]

http://www.canadiangreatwarproject.com

Regional and Regimental Affiliations of the Canadian Expeditionary Force

The following tables from www.canadiansoldiers.com present a clear outline of the many military units which formed the Canadian Corps during the Great War. Readers not familiar with the Canadian Corps and its sub-units are advised to visit this website first to familiarize themselves. [Also See Part 5][CEF Study Group - July 2006]

http://canadiansoldiers.com/cef/cefregions.htm

*The CEF Paper Trail - Brett Payne Website

An Unofficial Guide to the Official Canadian Army Service Records from the Great War

This project involves collating examples of each type of document found in a soldier's World War 1 Canadian Expeditionary Force Service Records. The guide is designed to show prospective researchers what they may expect in a soldiers' service records. It's important to be aware that you will only find a selection of these records in your particular CEF soldier's file. Brett Payne and other researchers with the CEF Study Group are seeking additional CEF documents. A very well done summary of representative documents and invaluable for any student of the Great War.

[Note: Some images will be slow to load under dial-up access.][CEF Study Group - July 2005]

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~b...rtrail.html#top

*The Matrix Project - Canadian Expeditionary Force Study Group

The Matrix Project is a unique element of the CEF Study Group. Initially developed and hosted on an associated CEF member's website, the project is an integral part of the CEFSG. The Matrix is a web based database of collective information provided by the CEFSG Members and provides information on all of the structure and components of the CEF during 1914 to 1919. The main CEF Matrix (the Army Corps and Army Troops) is supported by a number of "Utility Functions"for both the inexperienced and seasoned researcher. The Utility Functions are: Matrix Updates, Navigation Chart, Unit Summary Tables, Great War Maps, CEF Study Group Recommended Websites, Common Abbreviations, ORBAT Directory, and War Diary Links. The Matrix presents most of the information in a "loosely defined" Order of Battle [OBBAT] format. For detailed information as of [CEF Study Group - May 2006] please see: http://www.cefresearch.com/matrix/

[grleyland]

Many thanks to you both for your very prompt responses. I now have a mass of places to visit and some additional information that I did not previously know. Just to let you know, Harry Charles Victor Williams was my Great Uncle. As a result I have a great interest in finding out any information on a relative that moved to Canada!

I do have a copy of the Attestation Paper and copies of his service record from the National Archives of Canada and they include some limited medical information on his wounds. Is there a particular place that I can visit on-line that will contain more medical background?

I am aware that there is a memorial in Scotstown, Que that has the name Harry Williams on it. I believe that Scotstown is not a huge distance from what was McLeod's Crossing - the place where my Harry was living at the start of the war. Is there any way of checking if they are the same people? I am also aware that the memorial shows Harry as having a DCM but I can find no information that confirms this and there is no memory of it within the family - hence my concern that they may not be the same people.

[chris.wight]

I took photos of the Scotstown Memorial last year and posted them on the Canadian Great War Project, link. I also added information to his entry in the database, link, which as you will see has information in the notes section taken from the De Ruvigny Roll of Honour book.

If you have any more information or a photo of him, I'd be pleased to add it to his entry.

[chris.wight]

Here is a link to an old map of the Eastern Townships of Quebec, link. If you look at the bottom right corner in Compton County and follow the Canadian Pacific Railway line between Cookshire and Lac Megantic (near the Maine border) you will that both Scotstown and MacLeod's Crossing are both on the line, one after the other.

[grleyland]

Many tanks for the additional information. I had always wondered where, exactly, McLeods Crossing was as I can find no trace of it on modern maps of Canada. I did find McLeod near to Scotstown and noted that it was close to Sherbrooke where Harry joined up. Therefore I guessed that it might be the right place. Your map now confirms this.

I will see if I have a suitable photo of Harry for the site. I think that I have one taken of him just before the battle for Hill 70. He is wearing his Royal Highlanders kilt etc.

I am still confused about the DCM. I have not been able to trace a Harry Williams getting a DCM let alone one who died and came from the Scotstown area. None of my Harry's service papers refer to a DCM, nor does the small blue "died in service" certificate issued by the Canadian Government to my Great Grandmother. Indeed the CWG grave does not mention it nor does the small silver memorial cross.

Do you know if there were any other Harry Williams who were awarded a DCM in WW1?

Alternatively, do you have any idea where the information on the Scotstown Memorial came from?

I now have a host of relatives here in the UK who are glad that Harry is remembered in Canada. Thank you.

[chris.wight]

I had a look at my recent Eastern Township's map and the village (it may be no more than a few homes) is now known as McLeod's. It is just off Highway 214 and is on Lac la Loutre; it is nearer the town of Milan rather than Scotstown.

Looking through David K. Riddle and Donald G. Mitchell's book, "The Distinguished Conduct Medal Awarded to Members of the Canadian Expeditionary Force 1914-1920", there are only four Williams listed, but Harry is unfortunately not one of them. I believe this was either an error by the person who submitted his name for placing on the Memorial or was an error by the person making the plaque. Unfortunately I do not know where the information for the names for the Memorial came from; perhaps the local town records (if they still exist) may shed some light?

When I get down that way again (likely next year), I'll stop by McLeod's to see what it looks like and take a photo while there.

We'd appreciate a photo of him to add to his record. If you wish to add any other details, please feel free to do so.

I am pleased to hear his Memorial Cross has remained with your family (this was sent by the Canadian Government to both the deceased's mother and/or wife). You can read more about it here.

[grleyland]

Chris,

Many thanks for the information and PM. I will try to scan a photo of Harry this weekend and send it to you for the site.

I have the original photo used in the roll of honour book and the one of him in his kilt. I will see which one scans the best and send it on to you.

Regards

[chris.wight]

I forgot to mention you can download R.C. Fetherstonhaugh's history of the 13th Battalion, free of charge, link.

[nklein]

H. C. V. Williams is commemorated on the war memorial outside St Mark's Church, London SE11 - it stands opposite the entrance to the Oval tube station.

I have included him on my website here

Let me know if you would like me to send you a photo of the memorial.

[grleyland]

Hi there,

Thank you for your reply, I have only just picked up your message. I would love to see a photograph of the memorial with my Great-Uncle's name

Many thanks in advance.

Regards