The Old Guard Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 I've had this shell for several years, I've always thought it was British but I really have no idea. Pretty sure it's WW1. Stands 12 1/2 inches high and 2 1/2 across the base. If anyone knows about it can you point me in the direction of what type of gun would of fired it, I would like to find a photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 What number is on the fuze? Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 From the width of the driving band, it looks British. But then, I am no expert! Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guard Posted 15 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Not sure which number you refer to. I've added a photo of the base which has some markings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The numbers on the fuze indicate that it is a mechanical time fuze. By the way, I hope the shell has been deactivated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 I see by the markings on the base of the shell that it is made of forged steel and that the diameter is 2.75 inches. If you tell us the marking on the fuze (besides the gradients on it) we should have a better idea. It wil be something like, No 84. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 I would say it was a shrapnel shell from a 2.75in Mountain Gun aptly named 'Screw Gun' used by the Indian Mountain Artillery. It was named the 'Screw Gun' because the barrel consisted of two parts, connected by a screw joint. This enabled it to be packed by mule as each part of the barrel was nwithin the limits of the carrying capacity of a mule. The gun broke down into six mule loads and could be assembled and brought into action within two minutes. It was pricipally used on the North West Frontier although some went to Mesopotamia during WW 1. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macthomas Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The numbers on the fuze indicate that it is a mechanical time fuze. By the way, I hope the shell has been deactivated. I was going to start a thread asking just that question but might as well ask here. If you buy a shell or some other such item at a boot sale etc, how do you know if it has been deactivated? Cheers Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Deactivating the shell would involve removing or neutralizing the explosives in the interior of the shell. I personally don't know how to do it or how to tell whether it's been done. There are good reasons for the warning signs posted in military training areas warning people not to fool around with "dud" shells. The same principle holds for ordnance found on battlefields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guard Posted 15 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Many thanks for all the ideas so far. Don't worry this shell is empty, the fuse screws off the top. The scale round the fuse goes up to 22. The only other markings are a small F on the very top of the dome and a H on the bronze coloured rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 There has been quite a lot of discussion on this sort of thing over the years on the forum, to save repeating it all there is general info here especially concerning customs etc, takes a bit of wading through but there are some important points here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...07&hl=empty And here I posted some stuff on Granatenwerfers particurlarly in this topic: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...91&hl=empty Most Great War shells (HE and shrapnel 18 pounders etc) are simple things and perfectly easy to determine as being 100% empty of any explosive. I would advise if you are not familiar with these things only to buy from reputable militaria dealers at fairs etc. Do not touch anything that does not disassemble 100% into which you can see and be sure for yourself that it is nothing more than a totally empty container. Obviously the fuze must be devoid of any detonator or gaine that may have been attached. It is all a difficult area not only if you are not familiar with such things but in the light of the world we now live in and attitudes and interpretations to empty metal containers. Bear in mind that many Great War munitions are not simple vessels (especially grenades) and if you have to rely on someone else to confirm it is empty then that may not be good enough. A trace is enough to get you in trouble. Having said the above and just to pull one paragraph out of the first link above the most important thing is: In lay man's terms one chunk of inert brass [etc] is another man's piece of a 'bomb'. As long as the law and the interpretation of it are unclear you bring these things back [buy, own] at your own risk. Needless to say if you cannot be 100% sure that what you bring back [buy, own] is 100% inert and legal then leave well alone. If you are not expert enough to know then again, leave well alone. In the current climate you will be in trouble if you get it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The markings on the fuze are time (second) marking for setting the in-flight time before detonation above the target. Not really mechanical as such the rings contain black powder trains. Again, referring to another topic there is more here: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...07&hl=black Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 The U.S. Army categorically calls such fuzes mechanical time, to distinguish them from a Brit WW II invention by the boffins, the proximity fuze, otherwise known as variable time or pozit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 I have no information on the letter F on the casing the h however stands for manufacture by/in Harwich. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 F and S on the base of the shell case are usually taken together as Forged Steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 The U.S. Army categorically calls such fuzes mechanical time, to distinguish them from a Brit WW II invention by the boffins, the proximity fuze, otherwise known as variable time or pozit. Interesting, I guess most of us here are looking at this from a British prospective where Great War shrapnel shells were fitted with time and percussion (or T&P) fuzes and any later (US) term is not generally retrospectively applied. I guess seeing as your countrymen manufactured a large percentage of the fuzes used on British 18 pdrs in 14-18 we should respect your terminology! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete1052 Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 I used the terminology I learned in '77-'84 in the U.S. Army field artillery. Admittedly the nomenclature as well as the technology of these munitions may have or probably have changed in the 60-odd years between the Great War and when I was a lanyard-puller. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KevinEndon Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 The shell has never been fired there is no dimple in the base. There may well still be a bit of explosive in the bottom, maybe some boffin could tell you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Poilu Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 The shell has never been fired there is no dimple in the base. There may well still be a bit of explosive in the bottom, maybe some boffin could tell you more. Eh?! You must be thinking of the indentation that would appear on the primer of the cartridge case. This shell has indeed been fired. Look at the grooves in the banding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyE Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 I have no information on the letter F on the casing the h however stands for manufacture by/in Harwich. Tom Tom, I would be interested to know your reference for the above comment, especially as Harwich was a Naval depot. If the shell is of WWI vintage, then "H" on a fuse signifies manufacture by Holder Sons, Austin Works, Bradford. (see Min. of Munitions Manufacturer listings) However, I cannot see a date on the shell body or fuse. Regards TonyE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Among my many other 'vices' I collect ordnance stamps and the only British listings I have found for shells and casings with the letter h is for the head formed by Hammer and the marking for Harwich. You are correct my mistake was that the mark was on the fuse not the shell. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Old Guard Posted 16 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Many thanks for all the replys, all very intresting. I've had a closer look at the case in better light and there is a large W stamped and also what looks like number 14. Could W be the maker and 14 be the date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 W on Shells is a marking for manufacture at Woolwich or is that Woolich? Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnreed Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Surely the stamp for Woolwich is RL. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
museumtom Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 rl Royal Laboratories Woolich Arsenal. I also have W on its own for Woolich. Other marks I have for Woolich; rw on ammunition UK WW2 Rudge laboratories Woolich London. Arrow on ammunition indicates manufacture by Royal Laboratories Woolich or Radway Green. asc under w Station Staff Army Service Corps Woolich. Cook & Palmer, Woolich. c 1890s. British button and/or badge maker. hobson & Sons. 94 Great Windmill St and 43-44 Artillery Place Woolich, 1873-1877. British button and/or badge maker. Hobson & Sons. 37-38 Little Windmill st, and Woolich, 1878-1883. British button and/or badge maker. r arrow l Royal laboratories Woolich. rl Royal Laboratories Woolich Arsenal. rlb Royal laboratories Woolich. rw on ammunition UK WW2 Rudge laboratories Woolich London. wool under cavd Cavalry Depot Woolwich. Regards. Tom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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