Rarest book?

[MartH]

I suppose while we're on the subject of the Official History then the History of the Ministry of Munitions must be among the rarest books to find. I've certainly never seen any of the originals for sale. Maybe even harder to find than the Persia volume, which Harrington's had recently for around £3,500, or that Blockade volume you told me about.

They are rare, and exist, Ministry of Munitions Volumes come on the market in their separate parts, and there are at least two printings done of them, the first printing says they might change. . Persia or The History of the Administration of the Blockade are the rarest,(or Eastern Siberia). For Persia I estimate there are not more than 20 extant world wide, possible less, no secret copies sent to India have ever been seen, most likely destroyed because they objected to it so much. Sorry £3,500 but seems cheap, I have heard of much larger sums being offered. As for History of The Blockade, I know of 2 extant, one the IWM has, and one in a private collection, it was only declassified in 1958. Dick Gardner of The Battery Press alerted them to it being an Official History, and they then found one copy, they might have then found more. There are other copies out there but in 31 years of collecting I have only heard of one sold. Original copies of the two statistic volumes are rare, but one is not in the bibliographies.

[barkalotloudly]

At last an original copy of "Naval guns in Flanders 1914-1915" plenty of reprints, first original i have seen

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I've managed to find the huge 'Statistics of the Military Effort etc.' but the other one eludes me.

Another vol. which I imagine to be scarce, the 'Report of the Battlefields Nomenclature Committee' was on ABE last week for £20. I of course ordered it at once only to be informed several days later that it was 'no longer available'. Doubtless they got a better offer elsewhere.

[barkalotloudly]

I have a copy of this report somewhere from memory a soft cover, my copy includes the 3rd afghan war, "no longer available" several times just recently!!

[Dust Jacket Collector]

A rather nice buy today in my local bookshop - 'History of the 20th (Field) Company Royal Bombay Sappers & Miners in the Great War'. Only the IWM seems to have a copy. It's a fine little narrative of the Companys time at Neuve Chapelle, Egypt & Kut. Never heard of it before which just proves that the rarest books are the ones you didn't even know existed.

[MartH]

A rather nice buy today in my local bookshop - 'History of the 20th (Field) Company Royal Bombay Sappers & Miners in the Great War'. Only the IWM seems to have a copy. It's a fine little narrative of the Companys time at Neuve Chapelle, Egypt & Kut. Never heard of it before which just proves that the rarest books are the ones you didn't even know existed.

It's in Perkins, a reprint of an article in the Royal Engineers Journal, good find very very rare!

[ServiceRumDiluted]

I have 'An Der Somme' printed in Germany in 1916, also 'Trench Yarns' by 'Peter' published by Cassells probably in 1915. I have not seen these anywhere else.

The real unique item I am in close proximity to is the wartime records of one of the major Sheffield armour and shell manufacturers, (Hadfield?) Its in about 5 volumes, hand written and illustrated showing all analysis of armour piercing shell development. At the moment its closely guarded by my father who is a metallurgist and fast becoming a historian of metallurgy. He'll be meeting someone from the BBC to consult on the contribution of Sheffield steel makers to the Great War for the 100th anniversary commemorations.

[JOSTURM]

Does anyone know whether I can find a e-publication of Gerald Gliddon's out of print (2002) book - The Aristocracy and the Great War.

It is hard to get and expensive when found. I will buy a copy if I cannot access on the web, or via national Library search.

Thanks

Josturm

[JimShore]

I have vol. 2 of "With the Russian Army" - reprinted from a copy scanned at the University of Michigan. It's very interesting, especially the parts about Rasputin. Volume one is on Archive.org here: http://archive.org/stream/withrussianarmy101knoxuoft/withrussianarmy101knoxuoft_djvu.txt

"A soldier's notebook," by Brusilov. Have been looking for a copy since I was 18--finally ordered a new printing that just came out. Only took 23 years

Another is, "With the Russian Army," by Alfred Knox. It can be found in the library, but in ten years of searching I've never seen a copy for sale.


Paul

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Yesterday's Deepcut bookfair yielded a jacketed 1st of W.W.Campbell's 'East Africa by Motor Lorry' with a nice inscription by the author. They don't get much rarer than that.

[MartH]

Yesterday's Deepcut bookfair yielded a jacketed 1st of W.W.Campbell's 'East Africa by Motor Lorry' with a nice inscription by the author. They don't get much rarer than that.

I hope it was in dj!

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Most of the jacket anyway. Had to fill in the gap from an old B & W image.

[MartH]

Nice find!

[Black Maria]

If any one has been looking for a copy of 'A Soldiers War :Being the diary of the late Arthur Henry Cook written during four years

service with the 1st Battalion Somerset Light Infantry on the Western Front France during the Great War 1914-18' I have just noticed

there is a copy for sale on ABE/Amazon from Parrott Books at £35. I mention this because I searched for a copy for ten years before

eventually finding one and notice it has also been mentioned as one of the rarest books to find on post #35 on this thread.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

If any one has been looking for a copy of 'A Soldiers War :Being the diary of the late Arthur Henry Cook written during four yearsservice with the 1st Battalion Somerset Light Infantry on the Western Front France during the Great War 1914-18' I have just noticedthere is a copy for sale on ABE/Amazon from Parrott Books at £35. I mention this because I searched for a copy for ten years beforeeventually finding one and notice it has also been mentioned as one of the rarest books to find on post #35 on this thread.

Thanks BM, have ordered it. I shall now wait for the ' sorry this book is no longer available' message tomorrow.

[Black Maria]

Thanks BM, have ordered it. I shall now wait for the ' sorry this book is no longer available' message tomorrow.

Your welcome, fingers crossed for you.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

Your welcome, fingers crossed for you.

That welcome message arrived from ABE 'your order has been confirmed'

I wasn't familiar with this book (my radar cuts off post WW2) but I'm looking forward to reading it, especially as it's quite short!

Of course it was that fatal word " rare " that caught my attention most.

As an adjunct to this, is there an area of the forum where like minded collectors such as ourselves can discuss rare books, what's available & where to find them? I know there's a book section but it's largely for reviews. If there isn't one maybe it would be a useful addition, although I know the Mods are reluctant to add further subsections.

[MartH]

Ok so define a rare book? A term often used in book catalogues, but was is rare? Price is driven by 3 criteria, including in the mind of the seller and buyer, 1) Its is perceived/know to be scarce, 2) by 2 or more people who want, and 3) they have will pay the price.

Many books are "lots of cash" because many people want them, but there still can be many about for sale. I would help people get books, however I think we should have a section, which has "unusual","sought after", "rare", and "near unobtainable" definitions decided before the discussion start. Trouble is Alan, yours and my knowledge might drive up the price.

"Near unobtainable" is know to be sold under 5 times in 30 years of collecting!

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I admit definitions can be a minefield. You & I will know which books in our own specialist fields are hard to find (some of your OH volumes for instance). The trouble is one can only make a judgement on the copies one sees, which means online book sites, dealers catalogues, auctions, bookshops etc. However, many books never come to public view, either passing from dealer to dealer or straight to a customer who's requested it. Many sellers seem to assume a book is rare just because they haven't seen one in their shop! US dealers often list Hemingway's 'Farewell to Arms' as scarce in its first state to justify charging $3-4,000 for it, but there were 30,000 copies printed & most of them seem to have survived.

My definition of rare, sought after, unobtainable is whatever book I've been searching for for years & still not been able to find. It's a bit like those words used by dealers to define a books condition. I remember the compiler of Driff's guides defining them some years ago - 'Very Good' means not very good & 'Good' means no bloody good at all!

[MartH]

I admit definitions can be a minefield. You & I will know which books in our own specialist fields are hard to find (some of your OH volumes for instance). The trouble is one can only make a judgement on the copies one sees, which means online book sites, dealers catalogues, auctions, bookshops etc. However, many books never come to public view, either passing from dealer to dealer or straight to a customer who's requested it. Many sellers seem to assume a book is rare just because they haven't seen one in their shop! US dealers often list Hemingway's 'Farewell to Arms' as scarce in its first state to justify charging $3-4,000 for it, but there were 30,000 copies printed & most of them seem to have survived.

My definition of rare, sought after, unobtainable is whatever book I've been searching for for years & still not been able to find. It's a bit like those words used by dealers to define a books condition. I remember the compiler of Driff's guides defining them some years ago - 'Very Good' means not very good & 'Good' means no bloody good at all!

Hmm I don't think rare is unobtainable, I think is sold quite regularly. But our 2 judgments over 2 lifetimes of collecting, combined with others who collect books could really help people.

Oh yes Driff lovely. I loved it when Driff was upset Traylens, who said he was bringing a reputable trade into disrupt. Driffs response what reputations?

[Dust Jacket Collector]

I suppose it depends how dilligently one searches for a book. Being retired I check the book sites every day, have wants lists out, know some dealers, follow the auctions & am in touch with several other collectors through the website. Others however may consider a book to be rare if it hasn't turned up in their local Oxfam shop in the last few months! So as a start :-

Unobtainable - a known number of copies all of which are in public institutions.

Very Rare - between us we've seen 2 or 3 copies over a lifetime.

Rare - 1 or 2 copies appear every year or so.

Very Scarce - not particularly uncommon.

Scarce - the dealer needs to justify the high price to the novice punter.

All of which has nothing to do with value (monetary, that is). A book can be as rare as hens teeth but if nobody wants it then it's worthless.

As an example of nothing in particular there was a copy of 'Sagittarius Rising' , a relatively scarce book as a first in jacket, on EBay a couple of months ago which sold for around £100 & there's one on ABE for £3,500 which tells you something about value.

[Guest exuser1]

I recall an item on a B.B.C arts and antiques magazine programe some years back early 1990s ,the item in question was shown to the expert from Soutehbys who gushingly said it was PRICELESS! it was coming to auction the following month ,hammer price was £2000. yep two thousand pounds, the price was announced with a rye smile by the programes very good art expert .

[MartH]

I suppose it depends how dilligently one searches for a book. Being retired I check the book sites every day, have wants lists out, know some dealers, follow the auctions & am in touch with several other collectors through the website. Others however may consider a book to be rare if it hasn't turned up in their local Oxfam shop in the last few months! So as a start :-

Unobtainable - a known number of copies all of which are in public institutions.

Very Rare - between us we've seen 2 or 3 copies over a lifetime.

Rare - 1 or 2 copies appear every year or so.

Very Scarce - not particularly uncommon.

Scarce - the dealer needs to justify the high price to the novice punter.

All of which has nothing to do with value (monetary, that is). A book can be as rare as hens teeth but if nobody wants it then it's worthless.

As an example of nothing in particular there was a copy of 'Sagittarius Rising' , a relatively scarce book as a first in jacket, on EBay a couple of months ago which sold for around £100 & there's one on ABE for £3,500 which tells you something about value.

I agree with much of this, especially it has nothing to with the monetary value, but a guide to the numbers of extant copies surviving.

Unobtainable - a known number of copies the majority which are in public institutions, total below 5

Very Rare - between us we've seen 5 copies over 25 years in private hands, in addition to over 5 in public institutions

Rare - 1 or 2 copies appear every year or so.

Very Scarce - not particularly uncommon but appears to be sought after

Scarce - the dealer needs to justify the high price to the novice punter.

[Dust Jacket Collector]

That's seems fine, Martin. We need to set that in stone somewhere.

Another term often used is 'Uncommon' which is rather vague. I suppose a celebrity memoir might be described as 'common' in every sense of the word, whereas last week's newspaper might qualify as 'uncommon'. Maybe we'll avoid that one.

Now to find that copy of Military Operations : Persia!!!!

[MartH]

That's seems fine, Martin. We need to set that in stone somewhere.

Another term often used is 'Uncommon' which is rather vague. I suppose a celebrity memoir might be described as 'common' in every sense of the word, whereas last week's newspaper might qualify as 'uncommon'. Maybe we'll avoid that one.

Now to find that copy of Military Operations : Persia!!!!

OK Military Operations Persia.

It is "Very Rare". there are copies in certain libraries and I know of 4 sold in the last 25 years.

This is a celebrated Official History, originally 500 printed, 150 were eventually issued Secret and sent to India who objected strongly to the book being printed and 50 marked Confidential where retained, the remaining unbound 300 destroyed in the 1930's. Never seen a Secret copy and according to others, and Rose Coombs who I discussed it with long ago, these probably got pulped on arrival in India. So maximum of 50 surviving, its not red red, but salmon colored. It has a tendency to split at the spine. I have seen about 10 over the years.The gold colour is different too. Don't know if all where issued and if there is a list of to whom they where issued, like Rhineland.

Its is sought after by Great War Collectors, Official History collectors, but most importantly Middles East and Persia collectors and as a result the price can be high.