Havrincourt Posted 14 October , 2006 Share Posted 14 October , 2006 Hello Here is a picture taken of a pill box at Trones wood in 1919, in the picture there is also a section of railway line in the foreground, Is the concrete box still in the wood today? - and would anyone know if the rail line was in place before the war?, did it show on trench maps? Thanks Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6th Shropshires Posted 14 October , 2006 Share Posted 14 October , 2006 Hi Andy I am not sure if the railway was there before the war but I am looking at a trench map dated before 3rd Sept. 1916 and it shows two sections of railway or tram ?, the line branches just east of the wood, the one branch runs to the top of Bernafay, the second one after leaving Tones runs down to the S-W corner of Bernafay. In the other direction it run to the north of Guillemont where it branchs again, one run up Longueval, where it look like it ends, the other branch continues past Guillemont and the Quadrilateral. I'll scan the map if no one as posted one before the end of next week. Annette Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnaylett Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 There's mention of the line up to Trones Wood in this thread. My Great Grandfather's Battalion used it on at least one occasion. Thanks for the photo, first one I've seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The photo at the top is, I'm pretty sure, the one in the Michelin Guide to the Somme. I don't think the pillbox is still there today, I've never come across any mention of it in various guides. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The pillbox is probably the one shown on this map as GSP C (German Strongpoint C). I can't find the reference to it, but I am positive that the British were not aware of at least one of the railway lines through the wood, if not both. I believe that Strongpoint "C" was the one bombed by Sergeant William Ewart Boulter when he was awarded his V.C. on the 14-7-1916. No source mentions an actual pillbox, however. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Tom Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Hello, Not much to add! The Northhamptons were part of 54 Brigade in 18th (Eastern) Division. A memorial to 18 Div stands beside the road in the SE corner of the wood. The wood is pretty thick these days. I have not tried to penetrate. Old Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 15 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Many thnks guys The photo shows a branch line off to the left , so I wonder if later there might have been a yard near to this point after 1916, only a later trench map would tell us I suppose What direction would the pill box be facing?, looking at the map it is outside the wood ,this might well be the VC winners target [superb sketch map] Thanks Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 15 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2006 Here is an aerial view of the area, I have pinpointed the Stations in Guillemont and one in Barnafay wood , the sketch map matches up - look at the white patch where the Pill box was! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The caption by the photo (see post 1) in the Michelin Guide is "At the end of the wood, near a rail track on the right , and fifty yards from the road, is a concrete blockhouse". Not sure if this helps, as the "end of the wood" is not exactly a clear definition! However, the guide was intended for the battlefield tourist in a motor-car (1919), and the map in the guide suggests it could be the part by the Guillemont Road, either near the 18th Division memorial or else near where strong point A is marked on the map above. There was certainly a railway line running through the ventre of the wood, as described above, but is the line in the picture a war-time light railway line, which could have been laid late 1916 on before being photogrpahed in 1919? If so, the position of the pillbox would not be set by the pre-war railway line. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdajd Posted 15 October , 2006 Share Posted 15 October , 2006 The station in the SW corner of Bernafay Wood is now the Bernafay Wood Bed and Breakfast, which is a great place to stay when visiting the Somme. I stayed there thsi summer and it was a wonderful place to stay. There are three rooms and everyone has breakfast at a communal breakfast table surrounded by artifacts found in and around Bernafay and Trones Woods by the couple that owns the B & B. I did not have a chance to meet the husband, but the wife who was running it was very welcoming. This is what the station looks like today: I think during the war the station was used as CCS and a light railway ran right up into the woods. Prior to the war the rail line was there and operational for more traditional use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKY Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Danny and I are at Bernafay next week and will be walking around here. On the photograph anyone know what the white line leading to a rectangle is top left of picture? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Many thnks guys The photo shows a branch line off to the left , so I wonder if later there might have been a yard near to this point after 1916, only a later trench map would tell us I suppose What direction would the pill box be facing?, looking at the map it is outside the wood ,this might well be the VC winners target [superb sketch map] Thanks Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 About 15 years ago I remember seeing a concrete construction on the west side of the wood where the trees meet the ploughed field. The construction was definately first war vintage. However on recent trips both my brother and I have searched in vain. Not sure if it has been pulled up or completely overgrown but there was definately a pill box style construction there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 16 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 16 October , 2006 All good stuff , Tony well spotted - the white line seems rather deep and it does seem to lead to something, looks as though you will be walking near there next week Nice photo of the B&B Station house at Bernafay, would to have a look around in there Trenchtrotter, was it just a lump of concrete or still recognisable as a bunker? I'll be going up to Easingwold [GH Smith Printers] this week to buy some copies of Somme trench maps , I hope there is a close up one of the area Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Was a definate pill box type construction. It was between the road and the line of trees that runs between Trones and Bernafay Woods. I cannot remember how we found it but it was also mentioned in an early battlefield guide. Possibly Before Endevours Fade. I must check my library. We certainly did not find it by chance! If you know the pill box between Hebuterne and Fonquevillers it was similar type concrete but a lower profile, maybe three feet above ground level. Last looked for it two years ago and could not find it. Hope this helps but I dont think it would match the location of the onme in the picture. Good luck if you go searching. I normally visit in March when growth in the woods is minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teamski Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 Slick thread guys! Neat stuff. -Ski Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KIRKY Posted 16 October , 2006 Share Posted 16 October , 2006 One day perhaps we will find the huge underground bunker that is always shown at Bernafay? Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulus 1 Posted 17 October , 2006 Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Never seen or heard about this underground bunker ! Can anyone shed some light on this for me ? Thanks ! Johan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 17 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Never seen or heard about this underground bunker ! Can anyone shed some light on this for me ? Thanks ! Johan Yes, the famous picture taken from the bottom of the trench floor up the staircase! The large hole was filled in after the war, as to where it is and how much of a bunker or complex it was then I would like to find out The locals still talk of many underground bunkers right across the area- this is another one that is still there! Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Regulus 1 Posted 17 October , 2006 Share Posted 17 October , 2006 Of course, now I remember, this one : Curious thing indeed ! Thanks ! Best from Johan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 22 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 22 October , 2006 Well , I have been to the Printers and got a copy of a 1916 trench map, it shows all the tracks and stations as we identified earlier ans matches up with the great sketch map The white track that was mentioned earlier on the aerial photograph does appear to be a trench on the map below! , this is positioned near to the tree lined track leading into Longueval, as to what the rectangle was ?? Are there anymore thoughts as to the deep trench complex, the trench map shows a concentrated line in the north of Trones wood? [To save space on the Forum please PM me to see this picture, it has been removed after 2 years] Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 22 October , 2006 Share Posted 22 October , 2006 hello, as a side issue, does the printers you visit have a website/ mailing list, Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan_J Posted 22 October , 2006 Share Posted 22 October , 2006 If it's the colour reproduction trench maps then it will be G H Smith - although they seem to have changed their website so you have to create an account to searcgh it now. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick D Posted 22 October , 2006 Share Posted 22 October , 2006 fantastic information ! thank you. Mick D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 27 October , 2006 Author Share Posted 27 October , 2006 Thought I'd also show a view from Longueval to Trones and Bernafay taken on our last trip, from the exact spot of German trenches in the village ............ After 2 years from posting.......photograph removed to save bandwidth on forum, please PM me to view Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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