T.G. Young

[Guest Dav1d]

Hello, im trying to find details of my great grandfather, Thomas Guthrie Young. Relatives seem to think he was a Captain in the Royal Engineers, i have managed to find pictures of him posing on a horse with his men in his home town of Lenzie in Scotland, another of him with his men by what looks like a ship. Apparently so the story goes he was in Gallipoli or the crimea? and Why would there be no record of him on the medal cards??

Any help gratefully appreciated

Mr Burlinson

[Stebie9173]

I suspect this is your GGF:

London Gazette 12-2-1917

ROYAL ENGINEERS.

2nd Lt. T. G. Young is seconded for duty with Ministry of Munitions.. 25th July 1916.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

LG 28-9-1917

War Office,

28th September, 1917.

TERRITORIAL FORCE.

ROYAL ENGINEERS.

The undermentioned to be Lts., with precedence as from 1st June 1916, with pay and allowances as from 1st July 1917. 29th Sept. 1917: —

2nd Lt. T. G. Young, and remains seconded.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

LG 20-6-1919

ROYAL ENGINEERS.

Field Coys.—

Lt. T. G. Young, Lowland Div. Engrs., is restored to the estbt. of the R.E. (T.F.). 21st Mar. 1919.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

LG 16-12-1921

War Office,

16th December, 1921.

TERRITORIAL ARMY.

The undermentioned Offrs. relinquish their commns., 30th Sept. 1921, under A.O. 166/21, as amended by A.O. 332/21, and retain their rank., except where otherwise stated: —

CORPS OF ROYAL ENGINEERS.

52nd (Lowland') Divl. Engrs.

Field Cos.

Lt. T. G. Young.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

He seems to have been with the 52nd (Lowland) Division in one of their Field Companies - the Division was indeed in Gallipoli and then was attached to the Ministry of Munitions (probably in the UK) for the rest of the war.

http://www.1914-1918.net/52div.htm

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[SteveE]

Why would there be no record of him on the medal cards??

A couple of possibilities to explain it would be:

No overseas service therefore no Medal Index Card, although this is doubtful if family legend suggests he was at Gallipoli.

The more likely scenario would be that you suggest he may have been an officer, if this is the case officers had to claim their medals, perhaps he didn't. The end result would also be no Medal Index Card.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[mrs shorty]

Hi David

I have found 2 Thomas Young's medal cards both are corporals in the Royal Engineers

Could either be your man, did he survive the war?

Medal card of Young, Thomas

Corps: Royal Engineers

Regiment No: 3462

Rank: Corporal

1914-1920 WO 372/23

Medal card of Young, Thomas

Corps: Royal Engineers

Regiment No: 312658

Rank: Corporal

1914-1920 WO 372/23

Cheers Sandra

[Stebie9173]

I think this may be him:

Description Medal card of Young, Thomas Gushire

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Engineers Second Lieutenant

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...;resultcount=53

The initials T. G. Young seem to be unique to one man in the Officers of the British Army in WW1 (No other T. G. Youngs show up on a London Gazette search), so although not a betting man, I would wager a bit on this being him.

There is a Hard-Copy Service File at the National Archives that is probably him:

WO 374/77723 YOUNG, Lieut T G 1915-1919

http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalog...ullDetails=True

While it is not directly available online I believe you can order a copy, though I have not tried this myself.

Steve.

[SteveE]

I think this may be him:

Description Medal card of Young, Thomas Gushire

Corps Regiment No Rank

Royal Engineers Second Lieutenant

A third option why a MIC entry can't be found is down to a simple misspelling of his name

[Stebie9173]

Finally found his commission:

LG 20-10-1914

ROYAL ENGINEERS.

Lowland Divisional Engineers.

2nd Lowland Field Company, the undermentioned to be Second Lieutenants. Dated 6th October, 1914:—

James Miller.

Thomas Guthrie Young.

James Alfred Marsden.

George Bennett Ramsay.

George Maclachan Allan.

http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveVi...;selHonourType=

I can't quite figure out from the Long, Long Trail which Field Company this was exactly. Two of the Field Companies of 52nd Division were with the Division all along, the third joined from 29th Division in 1916.

However, at least two of the 2/Lts commissioned with him died during the war. J A Marsden in 1918, and G M Allan on Gallipoli.

The death of G M Allan is recorded on the 14th July 1915, whilst with 52nd Division R.E.

I THINK, therefore, that he was with the TF Field Company that became 413th Field Company in 1917, and was therefore always with 52nd Division (Only on the basis that his Co-officer died with the 52nd Division Engineers around that time.)

His date of entry into a Theatre of War (assuming 1915) should help me figure that one out for sure, though someone else may be able to confirm that.

I'm getting confused between 2nd (Lowland) Field Company, and 2/2nd (Lowland) Field Company, as the designation seems odd to me. The other alternative is that he was with 29th Division originally and landed in April 1915.

With the information from his MIC, we should be able to get a decent idea of his career.

Steve.

[Guest Dav1d]

Thanks to all for your help.

Got hold of his MIC, it was indeed a typo, its clearly correct Guthrie on the card..

I understand most of the card apart from the remarks section, it has a long list of code, is this just administrative?

Reading through old letters it appears he was buried alive in Gallipoli and recieved treatment for neurasthenia back home. One especially beng dug out from an attic in australia is sent to him from the front from while he is recovering. Where, if at all can records of this sort be found?I have ordered a copy of his file and the archives have yet to get back to me.

Thanks again

David

[Stebie9173]

Glad to be of help, David.

Just for my own peace of mind, what was his date of entry into the Theatre of War?

Hospital records as a whole are difficult to find, but his service record is likely to have reports from the Medical Boards he would have attended to assess his fitness for duty (be it at the Front, or as it seems with the Ministry of Munitions in his case).

His service file should answer a lot of questions.

Providing we can successfully identify his unit, then you can get a copy of the war diary for the unit, which should mention him a few times since he was an officer.

Steve.

[Guest Dav1d]

His entry was 28.6.15. in gallipoli

cheers

[Stebie9173]

Looks likely to be the 413th - a.k.a. 2/2nd (Lowland) - Field Company, then.

They embarked from England on the 9th June 1915 by the way.

I think as far as unit war diaries are concerned it is probably:

WO 95/4319 2/2 Lowland Field Company Royal Engineers. 1915 June - 1916 Jan.

Again, this is a physical (boxed) file at the National Archives.

Steve.

[Guest Dav1d]

Thanks again,

After reding through the guide to interpreting MIC cards I still dont understand the long coe in his remarks section.

IV982/wa?418-21EF/8/4953, the same cose is repeated EF/8/4953. at the foot of the card. The other cards on the page dont have anything like this, any ideas what this means?

David