Date of enlistment query

[castanet]

Can I find the date my great uncle enlisted from his service number? Rifleman, 321383, 1st/6th Battalion, London Regiment (City of London Rifles). On his medal card he has another number above the six-digit one - 3646. He died on Sept 15 1916. Any guidance greatly appreciated.

[Muerrisch]

Without looking up my reference books, the four figure number was the initial TF enlistment, and could be dated by an expert on the regiment. The six figure one may be a consequence of the 1917 repeat 1917 renumbering of the TF: some of those who died or were missing in 1916 seem to have been renumbered post mortem.

[eltoro1960]

Echoing what Grumpy said basically this appears to be a 1917 TF reorginisation number, however my G Uncle Charlie had a S prefix 5 digit number, see signature and he was a 1918 conscript. I have seen single digit numbers for some pre war regulars and TF soldiers before reorginisation. I must confess to being a bit bamboozled by it at times.

[dycer]

Castanet,

Just to echo John's word of caution about determining date of enlistment from the four figure number.

I know nothing about how numerically correct the 1/6th numbering is and possibly an expert may assist you.

It is apparent,though,that TF Soldiers did not always retain their original enlistment number and were allocated new ones e.g. on re-enlistment following the end of their intial engagement.

I won't bore you with my TF relative,suffice to say he went to War(1914) with a 2 figure number and was killed 1918 with a 6 figure number.However,somewhere along the way he was allocated a 4 figure number .There is no evidence that he ever changed Battalions.

On the Long,Long Trail Website you should find an article about the 1917 TF renumbering exercise.It might be worth looking at this.In my relative's case he was allocated the second lowest new number which ties in with his length of service as denoted by his original 2 figure number.If this applies to your Grt/Uncle's Battalion you may not be able to determine a date of enlistment but it may give an indication if he was a senior member of the Battalion on length of service.

In my case I have postcards sent from pre-War Annual Camps from which I can confirm my relative joined the TF in 1908.You have nothing similar?

Another thought is to see if your Grt/Uncle's Service Papers survive in the National Archive in Kew,many were destroyed in WW2.I appreciate this is easier said than done in your case,in view of your current domicile

George

[Graham Stewart]

Whilst applauding any word of caution when looking at T.F. numbering, the numbers themselves are still the best way of determining when a man enlisted, but only if you have a database which shows pre-war and wartime service of a particular battalion or better still battalions. Sadly many T.F. units didn't use the pre-fix battalion numbering which thay should have adopted on the 18th May 1915, as per War Office Instructions. I'm lucky in the fact that the Northumberland Fusiliers adopted this system so that duplicate T.F. numbers can be eliminated.

However a recent look at some N.F. Medals Roll Books as opposed to MIC's has show me that "clerical error", is one of the biggest headaches when dealing with T.F. numbering. Recently I had a case of one lad with two 4th N.F. numbers, a 5th N.F. number and a Norfolk Regt number to boot, who was KIA. There was no mention of the Norfolks in the MRB, only in SDGW. The number in the MRB on arrival overseas with 4th N.F. was really high, while the second one was mid-range, which didn't make sense at all, as he wasn't from this region, wasn't a pre-war T.F. lad.

After ages spent looking at the 4th and 5th numbering sequences it became clear just exactly what had gone on i.e. he served in Norfolk Regt T.F. at home and transferred to 4th N.F. with a new medium range four figure number. Transferred to 5th NF and re-numbered in their range. Then re-transferred back to the 4th NF and with higher four figure number.

The Clerk really was in no mood to be faffed around and seemed to do his own thing on more than one Medal Roll Sheet. You may ask, why two 4th N.F. numbers and it's simple, T.F. men transferred permanently to other battalions/units were discharged, and so could no longer be given their old number back. If they ever came back, they had to be renumbered i.a.w. T.F. Regulations and this process had been going on long before the war even started.

Probably doesn't sound too convincing, but it works for me, but I agree that each T.F. Battalion has to be treated differently.

Graham.

[Graham Stewart]

A couple of T.F. transfers both KIA, no previous service in the Norfolk Regt or 5th N.F. shown in SDGW.

Graham.